R/A late night trolley service test

[CityLife]

Tallahassee is looking to do a similar service, with some free buses from West Palm Beach.  Not sure how far it will go, since there is a good bit of vocal opposition. 

Yes these are not Trolleys, but 'cute buses'.  If there is no rail, and there is no gantry, it is not a trolley.

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/A-Tallahassee-Trolley-213081971.html

Tallahassee and Gainesville both run free late night systems that are similar to this that serve their college students and local bars/restaurants. Later Gater is from 8:30-2:45 M-Sat and Night Nole is Tue-Sat from 10:30-3.

[fieldafm]

For those not familiar with the history.  Here are a few links:


Live Blog of Riverside Trolley/Art Walk trial:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10234.0

Response to cutting service (yet again):
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-jta-cutting-riverside-trolley-service

Another successful ridership experiment with Luminaria:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10659.0

One of the wildly successful pub crawls where we rented JTA trolley busses and took patrons in b/w Riverside and Downtown venues:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-aug-pub-crawl-riverside-and-downtown-event-huge

Let me also recap what the neighborhood did do:

-Convinced JTA to do a test run at Art Walk-Ridership went through the roof two out of the three times this was tried.  The third time was cold and rainy. I personally ate dinner at Cafe NOLA that night and there were 6 vendors in all of Hemming Plaza and the streets were bare... meaning, no one showed up at Art Walk that night.

-Convinced JTA to get out in the neighborhood and promote the trolley service and run a free service day-Single biggest ridership day they had

-Made the RAP Home Tour part of the Riverside Trolley route-Ridership spikes to very high levels

-Downtown stakeholders meet with JTA about extending service to Bay Street on weekend nights like the Beaches Trolley system gets(who btw averages LESS riders per hour than Riverside Trolley).  JTA never followsup with a promised second meeting.

-Riverside/Avondale advocates meet with JTA regarding several items:
*Thur-Sat evening hours-response was until ridership improves we won't do that

*Eliminate one of the 7 routes that touch Park Street and extend a secondary RT loop on Park so that the RT reaches more people-we already have ample service along Park Street(which is true as long as you want to go to Rosa Parks or the former Normandy Mall)

*A plan in hand with buy-in from local merchants about extending a direct merchant-based transit program with a bulk ticket program(done in other cities btw, with fantastic results in capturing choice riders)-response union bus drivers would never hand out tickets or validate any type of ticket*  BTW, they turned their back on the beaches merchants in year 2 of the Beaches Trolley service and advertising revenue and rideship drops

*A plan for RT-specific month-long discounted passes-response, yes we want to do that, guess we will be waiting for a very long time now that they are eliminating what was the Riverside Trolley.  BTW, the new plan is to terminate the trolley at the new courthouse, not the Landing. 

-It has been said here and said many, many times to JTA by anyone who would speak up... but the route, headways and the terminus at FSCJ were all mistakes and not convenient to anyone.  That was ignored.

-MetroJacksonville demonstrates a successful project with three months straight of successful trolley pub crawls, in part to demonstrate to JTA that evening service connecting vibrant entertainment/commercial nodes together works(as if you can't go to any city with a functioning transit system and witness this).

But hey, these are the smartest guys in the room... nothing to see here, move along.

There are about 5 senior people at JTA that get it.  Otherwise, the senior leadership team needs to be replaced.  And it needs to happen today.

As you can see, it's been a long road demonstrating successful experiements that show that transit would be accepted by the neighborhood if it's a convenient option.


Please support these efforts Aug 10th!

[ProjectMaximus]

This is definitely a positive and if I'm in town I'll be there (and tell lots of others too) but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then? And no tie in with the eastern portion of riverside?

Selfishly, if I can get back to Five Points at 2am that would be the ideal scenario as far as transit is concerned. Otherwise I'd be riding cause it's fun, not pragmatic.

[fieldafm]

but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then

Considering that virtually all the businesses that are paying to rent the trolleys (remember, this isn't a JTA thing) close at midnight, I don't consider the service hours all that unreasonable. 

[ProjectMaximus]

but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then

Considering that virtually all the businesses that are paying to rent the trolleys (remember, this isn't a JTA thing) close at midnight, I don't consider the service hours all that unreasonable.

That's what I figured and I don't think its unreasonable either. Just not practical for me, and perhaps others like me.

Still certainly a positive move.

[fieldafm]

Allan is going to come on and update everyone in a bit... the date changed.  Sorry for prematurely putting the August date out there. 

[Allan D]

First, thanks for all the kind words, support and great feedback.  The regular discussions on this site help validate that there is support in both intellect/ideas and participant bodies for this sort of public transportation.

True, the initial or, soft date, was August 10th, but, for a few important reasons, we have set the hard date at Saturday, September 14th.  We are looking forward to finalizing the sponsorship group, marketing pieces and tech pieces of the event (geo-location?).

I can confirm these things and promise to update as more info is available:

As noted in the thread, this is just one reasonable and, hopefully, viable solution to some of our neighborhood's parking challenges.  It's been long talked about and overdue, but I couldn't better explain the history and goals than Fieldafm did above.  Showing over whelming support for this pilot program will be well documented and distributed to JTA and city officials in a used car salesman like manner.

The goal of the initial dining shuttle is to be sponsored by local restaurants with tickets given out by those sponsors.  (Feel free to tell your local restaurant owner or manager that you'd love to see them be a part of this program.)  We look for future nights to be both rider and sponsor supported – much like JTA routes.

The route includes all the commercial areas of Avondale and Riverside, including 5 Points, King Street from Park to the brewery district, and the Shoppes of Avondale.  Well marked stops in between will pick up and drop off people on major streets within the residential areas (St. Johns, Park, Riverside).

Tickets will be distributed at participating restaurants and I will post here when those tickets are available.  Maps of the route, times, stops and participating restaurants will be available online at the same time and paper versions will be at participating restaurants.

The long term goal is no different than previously stated – convince JTA to provide this service on a regular basis.  There are some that believe it could happen and more that believe it should happen. 

Thanks again.

[Allan D]

Do we know whcih surface lots will be serviced?

fsujax - There has been discussion about looping in surface lots at some point to promote a "park and ride" experience for guests coming from outside the neighborhood.  The initial survey the group conducted told us that almost 50% of our driving traffic in the neighborhood comes from the 32204 and 32205 zip codes.  We felt convincing our own neighbors that supporting this service would have a more immediate impact.  That said, the route does go by some large lots and areas with more available parking that we hope will support those coming from outside these 2 zip codes.  More info to come when published.

[Allan D]

This is definitely a positive and if I'm in town I'll be there (and tell lots of others too) but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then? And no tie in with the eastern portion of riverside?

Selfishly, if I can get back to Five Points at 2am that would be the ideal scenario as far as transit is concerned. Otherwise I'd be riding cause it's fun, not pragmatic.

Project - There has been discussion about extending this or future runs until 2 or 2:30 am to help service the restaurants and bars that stay open later.  As Intuition stated, the motor vehicles that are built to look like trolleys cost $100 per hour, so extending the hours requires more sponsors.  We are targeting the restaurants first and will hope for later night establishments to join. 

[thelakelander]

Do we know whcih surface lots will be serviced?

fsujax - There has been discussion about looping in surface lots at some point to promote a "park and ride" experience for guests coming from outside the neighborhood.  The initial survey the group conducted told us that almost 50% of our driving traffic in the neighborhood comes from the 32204 and 32205 zip codes.  We felt convincing our own neighbors that supporting this service would have a more immediate impact.  That said, the route does go by some large lots and areas with more available parking that we hope will support those coming from outside these 2 zip codes.  More info to come when published.

Wow.  Has this survey been shared with the parking study group?  That's pretty interesting that the perceived parking congestion issues are primarily a result of the neighborhood's own residents making short auto trips.  It would suggest that access to multimodal choices, such as this, are valid solutions for the neighborhood's future.

[Allan D]

Wow.  Has this survey been shared with the parking study group?  That's pretty interesting that the perceived parking congestion issues are primarily a result of the neighborhood's own residents making short auto trips.  It would suggest that access to multimodal choices, such as this, are valid solutions for the neighborhood's future.

Lake - That % was based on data from just a few of several participants, but those that had more complete surveys.  While it may not pass a statisticians litmus test, it is the most complete data that we feel comfortable working with.

It does confirm what we all "feel" to be true and, as an Avondale resident, I have been guilty of - local residents driving short trips within the neighborhood.  Short of more viable alternative (I'm not biking from west Avondale to 5 Points on a work day in the Summer), I drive now.  I did take the RT when it came this far west.

I believe members of the parking study have this information.

[tayana42]

Perhaps it's already in the plan, but if not, why not charge $1 per person per ride.  If it's fun and it's popular, it just might be self-funding.  If it is self-funding,  JTA's would be much more likely to support a permanent route, than if it'a a free trolley bus sponsored by local restaurants. 

Jacksonville is an automobile-dependent city.  Our heat, rain, and lack of bike lanes discourage bicycle transportation.

If that trolley bus is fun, convenient (serves lots of stops and runs frequently) and inexpensive it just might work.   However, you have to ask the question:  will you leave your car at home and walk "x" distance to the trolley bus stop not knowing when it's coming, ride to a bar or restaurant, and then wait for the bus to ride back to your stop, and then walk home?  Are we at the tipping point where that bus is more attractive than driving and fining there is no nearby parking?
Probably not.  HOWEVER, if that bus is loaded with a fun crowd, and you enjoy the experience, it just might work.  Hope it does.

[jaxlore]

Glad to hear this. I hope it can be extended downtown. This should be also championed a way to keep people from drinking and driving if it could service the core area. I wouldnt mind walking quite a bit of I could catch a trolly from riverside to downtown and back heck Id pay more then a buck.

[Garden guy]

Can we please not call these trollies;....its like pissing on my leg and telling me its raining...they are not a trolley which gives the idea that our city is reaching for something new. These are buses running on diesel ...unless they are battery which is great.

[funwithteeth]

Can we please not call these trollies;....its like pissing on my leg

Hey Garden guy, is that semicolon/ellipses combo in your post supposed to represent the pissing that's happening to your leg? Because I'm trying to figure out why you (or anyone) would use those like that.