Are Skyscrapers Overrated?

[I-10east]

 I thought that this piece was very interesting. To be honest, I agree with just about everything that the speaker said with the video below (ducking for cover). Remember, she's talking about freaking Philadelphia. While there are exceptions to the rule with mostly overseas places like Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc where land is scarce, for the most part building these supertall office buildings in the US nowadays are like a bygone era, esp with the increase of overseas jobs over recent years. China with it's dozen of 'ghost cities' is the poster boy for overbuilding with no demand; With many of these condos being completely empty and others unfinished exposed to the weather ie Berkman 2. There was an episode on the HBO show 'Vice' about China's ghost cities; Very melancholy. Regarding Jax, I would like to see DT continue to concentrate on filling up these vacant buildings, moreso than erecting a 55 story office tower anytime soon. Here's the vid below.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_12JoDBdac

[thelakelander]

Skyscrapers are great for driving by. However, as far as street level vibrancy goes, I'd take blocks and blocks of occupied two story mixed-use buildings over a couple of skyscrapers any day.

[CityLife]

We've had this discussion before:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,15094.0.html

Anyone that thinks we need skyscrapers should read this article:

http://assemblepapers.com.au/2013/06/13/cities-for-people-jan-gehl/?goback=.gde_97473_member_249724420

[ben says]

Yes, overrated. Some of my favorite cities and townships are completely without them.

[Overstreet]

They are fun to build.

[I-10east]

We've had this discussion before:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,15094.0.html

Anyone that thinks we need skyscrapers should read this article:

http://assemblepapers.com.au/2013/06/13/cities-for-people-jan-gehl/?goback=.gde_97473_member_249724420

My bad.

[simms3]

Well the good news for you then is that I wouldn't worry at all about anyone putting up an office tower, a high rise hotel, or another condo tower anytime soon.  Best prospect is a local company needing a mid-rise of 8-15 stories somewhere that's probably not even downtown for themselves to occupy...build to suit tower in the burbs or something boring.

I do think skylines indicate the health and growth of a city at a point in time.  Growing and flourishing cities tend to build up while they build out and/or gentrify.  You can even tell a city's best decades by the age of the buildings in its skyline(s)...unfortunately for Jax, nothing significant has come about since the 80s when buildings were not built to interact at the street level...nowadays especially on the residential side high rises are being built for density and for human-scale at the street.

[I-10east]

I do think skylines indicate the health and growth of a city at a point in time.

Certainly not in China outside a handful of cities. Hell look at Mobile with it's Chrysler-esque building; Not exactly bustling.

Last time I checked, the tallest building in Jax was built in the nineties; I think it's safe to say that it's significant to Jax's skyline, and yes it's street level is okay.

[goldy21]

The number of Supertall (1,000+ ft) buildings being built in Asia and the Middle East is shocking:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=902

[fsquid]

I can't say I've ever "rated" them.

[thelakelander]

I do think skylines indicate the health and growth of a city at a point in time.

Certainly not in China outside a handful of cities. Hell look at Mobile with it's Chrysler-esque building; Not exactly bustling.

Last time I checked, the tallest building in Jax was built in the nineties; I think it's safe to say that it's significant to Jax's skyline, and yes it's street level is okay.

At street level, the BOA could be so much more.  Its street level retail spots are a revolving door, partially because most don't even know they exist because you can't really see them from the street.  In terms of changing downtown for the better, I think one of the easiest fixes we can do is better expose street retail in our towers (ex. Everbank, BOA, Wells Fargo Center, etc.)

[I-10east]

^^^I can think of countless NYC skyscrapers that don't have any retail outside. It's just magnified because Jax is on such a smaller scale. I personally don't expect the Mall of America on the bottom floor of every office building. Hell, look at the Empire State Building, all entrances; I don't see any fancy-schmancy parasol lined streets with cafes incorporated within ESB's first floor. There are other types of building ie Chamberlain's, parking garages etc that is better for that sorta thing IMO. I think that expecting tons of retail within the first floor of an office building is kinda nit picky, as most have their stores, cafes, etc inside the building. Just my opinion. 

[Wacca Pilatka]

I don't think it's so much the expectation of tons of retail as the exposure of that retail.  There's little in the way of signage to indicate to passersby that there is retail in those buildings.

Speaking of street-level retail, I see that another office furniture showroom is opening in either the Atlantic Bank Annex or 121 Atlantic Place, I forget which?

[CityLife]

You can't really compare the BOA Tower (or anything in Jax ever) with NYC, because its on one of Downtown's most important streets. So much so that the city has invested heavily in improving the streetscape and creating a facade improvement program. If the BOA Tower and Old Independent Life Building had been designed to interact with Laura Street and had suitable retail spaces, they would be absolutely bustling, and Laura Street would be far more vibrant. Laura Street would be packed with restaurants, shops, bars, etc from Hemming to The Landing. Instead there is a dead zone in the middle.

[thelakelander]

^^^I can think of countless NYC skyscrapers that don't have any retail outside. It's just magnified because Jax is on such a smaller scale.

Yes, countless NYC skyscrapers don't have retail outside.  Yes, it could be magnified because Jax is a smaller scale.  Neither point makes our existing situation desirable.  It can be improved and it's one of the easiest and most affordable things we can do in downtown Jacksonville to generate more pedestrian activity.

I personally don't expect the Mall of America on the bottom floor of every office building. Hell, look at the Empire State Building, all entrances; I don't see any fancy-schmancy parasol lined streets with cafes incorporated within ESB's first floor.

Okay.  Nevertheless, there is street level retail, cafes, etc. in all of these towers.  Most of it sits empty.  Wouldn't you like those spaces to be occupied with viable businesses?

There are other types of building ie Chamberlain's, parking garages etc that is better for that sorta thing IMO. I think that expecting tons of retail within the first floor of an office building is kinda nit picky, Just my opinion.

Got it.  However, the fact is I'm talking about existing retail spaces, not an opinion of what could be built on site.  I think we can both agree that an existing retail space filled with a revenue generating business is better than existing retail space sitting empty and collecting cobwebs.