City interested in demolishing Claude Nolan building?

[thelakelander]

^So you're talking about buildings of only architectural significance instead of historical or cultural? Provide me with a street boundary of what you consider the Northbank core and I'll try to pinpoint the last architecturally significant structure torn down within that particular area.

[edjax]

I guess doubly speaking from the river to say union.  And Jefferson to the a Randolph. 

[edjax]

And not to be a pain but I think it would interesting to know what is currently in where those buildings were torn down.  Example.  Is the land a parking lot.  Vacant or where the new library, federal or county courthouse is now located.

[thelakelander]

This church at Julia & Church Street was torn down by KBJ Architects for a grass lot in 2007:







Also, the Lerner Shops building on Main Street was torn down in 2009. It was a smaller retail structure that many probably don't consider significant. That is, until you start to realize the high number of small businesses that wanted to be in downtown, that ended up on King Street because of the lack of opportunity to pull off something affordable in DT. Farah & Farah turned this building's site into a private courtyard.

[thelakelander]

And not to be a pain but I think it would interesting to know what is currently in where those buildings were torn down.  Example.  Is the land a parking lot.  Vacant or where the new library, federal or county courthouse is now located.

I can't think of anything since the demolition of the 10-story Rhodes Furniture building in the early 2000s, that didn't end up as a vacant lot or parking lot.

[thelakelander]

Another decent building was the old Southern Bell office building on Adams, near Julia Street.  It was torn down for the new courthouse, only to see the courthouse built across the street.  To this day, the site remains a surface lot.

[uga_jax]

Would Intuition Ale be interested in having a 2nd location in either the Claude Nolan bldg or the adjacent warehouse(s)? I know they were disappointed by not being able to build something at the shipyards. Intuition's success at this location adjacent to Hogan's creek could be a catalyst to clean up Confederate Park and the creek.

[thelakelander]

That ship has sailed. They looked at the property and decided against it a few months ago.

[Tacachale]

Looking generally at the core area of downtown, I think it's pretty clear that most buildings demolished there in the last 30 years or so have only been replaced with empty lots. There are a few demolished to make way for something new (the current library, Berkman buildings, and federal courthouse come to mind) but that hasn't been the norm. Even some of the newer buildings that replaced empty lots were not the original intent of the demolition. For instance, the BOA tower replaced an empty lot, but it wasn't planned that way. Barnett Bank actually demolished the old Heard National Bank Building for employee parking; it was only a good bit later that they decided to build the tower there.

Several empty lots were cleared for planned projects that failed for one reason or another. Others were to create parking. Sadly, still others were due to tax regulations that made it cheaper for owners to sit on empty lots than empty buildings.

[edjax]

Thanks Lake!  Exactly where was the Rhodes building?  What a shame!!  Any ideas where we could have made wiser decisions on the new courthouses and library for being build?  Realistically it is inevitable that some older structures will have to be torn down for newer buildings.  Which I am not sure is always bad.  What is the last year where something of significance was torn down that is now a vacant lot?? 

[Tacachale]

The Rhodes Building was on Main Street and came down for the library. As far as where else to build those buildings, there's much in the downtown core that's that size, that the city could get a hold of. There are many empty lots but they're spread around; in both cases it was pretty clear something was coming down. The other option would have been to go further out, like Lavilla (which the courthouse did, and it still took out a bunch of perfectly fine buildings).

For the library the original plan would have incorporated the Main Street buildings into the design, but the architects wouldn't do it within the budget. For the courthouse, well, there's a lot that could have been done to make it less of a disaster. The first step would probably have been not to start over from scratch after $60 million worth of work had already been done.

Looking forward there's more that can be done with the Library to improve it, if the city would take the initiative.

[thelakelander]

Thanks Lake!  Exactly where was the Rhodes building?  What a shame!!  Any ideas where we could have made wiser decisions on the new courthouses and library for being build?

The Rhodes was on the NW corner of Main & Monroe Streets.  The library occupies that entire block now.  Looking back, I believe the courthouse should have been vertical.  IMO, it would have been better if both were constructed on a few of the numerous surface parking lots that existed back then, even if it meant not being adjacent to Hemming Plaza. 

Realistically it is inevitable that some older structures will have to be torn down for newer buildings.  Which I am not sure is always bad.

In general, I'd agree but right now, Charleston and Savannah are successfully defying this concept.  Given that most of our downtown properties are dedicated to parking, we sound be able to accommodate new and old.  However, that's not what's happening here.  The majority of things being demolished here are resulting in vacant sites and surface parking lots.

What is the last year where something of significance was torn down that is now a vacant lot??

For me, Worman's had high cultural and historical significance on the development of this city, so 2012.  If significance is only defined on the level of the Rhodes Building, then probably the Southern Bell building in 2003.

[edjax]

Thanks guys for all the info!!  A couple of silver linings I guess is that it would appear we have gone a decade with no additional purging of downtown ( I just can't really buy into Wormans. But each to his own.  So let's strive to make it two decades!!! It just seemed from some on here that we have still been tearing down buildings at the rate of one per month!! This is not so, so perhaps we have turned the corner!!!  Another silver lining is that it appears that city/government has been the primary offender and hey... Really what else is there of sognicant size they need to build yet!! Oh, that pesky convention center?!! So perhaps the worst is behind us and we can now move forward and put our efforts into saving those worth saving and not keep living in the past. We know what it was and nothing can be done about it so focus on the future.

[edjax]

One last comment on Wormans. They owned the building as I recall and decided to close it and abandon it. I know their complaint was the delay in the courthouse. But they have a history of blaming their shortcomings on this type of stuff.  Was the same years ago with rebuild of San Marco Blvd when they closed what is the current European Street.  Then when construction was underway on San Jose they closed their place in Lakewood at the corner of San Jose and Univeristy. 

[sheclown]

I loved Wormans.  I saw Henry Winkler there one morning eating breakfast. I think folks who visited thought it was a cool piece of Jacksonville flavor.

And the black and white cookies.  yummm.