The S-Line: The Key To Urban Economic Revitalization?

[moose007]

Where is progress at this point in the northern sector of development?

[thelakelander]

Are you referring to the S-Line as a rail corridor or bike path?  The bike path to Gateway Mall is complete.  The S-Line as an economic development stimulating rail link is still on paper.  However, it is a priority project of the Mobility Plan and Fee.

[simms3]

What can an urban path do for a city?  Check the video out below...I've been hearing about this "problem" of overcrowding for a while, and there are another 2,000 units UC at this time set to deliver this year.

http://www.youtube.com/v/8NMJyziq7lY?hl=en_US&version=3

[peestandingup]

Btw, the existing bike trail was recently extended north, a few miles, to Gateway.  At this point, it doesn't appeal to yuppies and recreational riders but it is used by those living in the Northside neighborhoods it currently penetrates.

I didn't go all the way through to the Northside, but I was out all day yesterday on the first half (from Myrtle Ave all through Springfield & back again) & IMO this thing is seriously being underutilized. I counted maybe 4-6 other cyclists on my trip. And if any of you were out yesterday, everywhere was CRAZY crowded & lots of stuff going on all over the core, plus a beautiful day. This is a problem.

What also makes me think no one uses it, other than my own observations, is little things like social media. Hardly any checkins on Foursquare, or Instagram, etc. I know thats not exactly a great measure, but its something. Especially with yuppies, millennials, and the younger demographic. All of this tells me that they're not using it, nor probably even know it exists. And how would they know? You never see anything about it (other than stories here), its not apparent that something is even there when looking at maps, the entrance on the Riverside side is in a mostly abandoned section of a former industrial area, etc.

This is typical Jacksonville half-assed planning at its finest. The very LEAST they could do is have more literature about it & have a safer "on road trail" or bike lanes with signage that points people in the direction of the S-Line from Riverside Ave or somewhere like that. But my guess is it'll sit here like this for years & be forgotten about.

[thelakelander]

Millennials, yuppies, etc. are never going to use the S-Line or any other facility in an area of town that isn't comfortable to them until that facility is tied directly into someplace that is.  From my experience, most of the people in those neighborhoods using it are on foot.  I notice a decent number of school age children use it to get to/from nearby schools and bus stops during the weeks. With all of that said, the mobility plan does provide funding to connect the S-Line with the Baldwin Trail, the rest of the urban core and city in general. We just need to make sure we don't lose or significantly delay such funding by continuing moratoriums on the fee.

[peestandingup]

Millennials, yuppies, etc. are never going to use the S-Line or any other facility in an area of town that isn't comfortable to them until that facility is tied directly into someplace that is.  From my experience, most of the people in those neighborhoods using it are on foot.  I notice a decent number of school age children use it to get to/from nearby schools and bus stops during the weeks. With all of that said, the mobility plan does provide funding to connect the S-Line with the Baldwin Trail, the rest of the urban core and city in general. We just need to make sure we don't lose or significantly delay such funding by continuing moratoriums on the fee.

They might if they knew it was even there. You have to remember that people in Riverside only have the Riverwalk & the road to ride on (which is extremely hit or miss), and thats basically it. You're right that most probably wouldn't because of where the entrance is (scary abandoned industrial area), but I bet some would at least give it a try if there was A: A clear path with signage pointing the way, even if the path used the existing road with bike lanes or sharrows. And B: More notoriety of the path/paths in general.

Even if the moratoriums continue (which I personally think they will), there's still minor things they could do to make it somewhat useful/attractive. But discontinuing the moratorium & building it out properly would of course be the ultimate solution. I feel the trail will become stagnant & forgotten about otherwise left as is.

[simms3]

The S-Line could turn out even without major city funding help.  The city should really publicly be "on board", and maybe set up some sort of enterprise or tax exemption zone, but it doesn't really truly need to go to great lengths to make the S-Line a public success if the private sector shows any interest in its potential.

Lake I know in another post you mentioned that you didn't think the Beltline was special and that it should be the norm for cities (and I agree with the latter), but having worked as a volunteer with ABLP (there's 501(c)3 Atlanta Beltline Partnership and Atlanta Beltline Inc, connected but serving two purposes), I have seen the work that goes into it, mainly stemming from private sector involvement and general public support (i.e. volunteers).  It really is special, which is why it attracts so much national and even international attention.

It's true the city designated a new TIF district around the entire 28 mile length of the Beltline and has expressed support for the project, which has helped spur new development, but the extent to which the Beltline transformed formerly rundown inner city areas is a testament to the will of the engaged private sector in the city.  It's a project that receives similar treatment as say the National Center for Civil and Human Rights or the High Museum...I probably ran or volunteered at 5-6 5Ks for various segments of the Beltline...every event in the city has a booth to spread awareness.  The marketing is incredible, there is not one person out of the 6 million in the region who doesn't now know about the Beltline...in fact every Saturday there are bus tours of the 28 mile length, and before parts of it became reality, there was a 6 month waiting list to get on one of these bus tours!

Just check out the Facebook pages, the web sites, etc to get a brief glimpse at the effort put into it, the kind of effort that is needed to really make the S-Line, or Pinellas Trail, or any converted ROW a successful urban public space.

While there has been city motivation, it's the success of Beltline leadership, community wide efforts and fundraising to actually build the thing, that has led to a heated development/redevelopment market.  My own firm is pouring almost a quarter billion dollars into a project along the Beltline...we bought the building from the city and our interest was sparked when the Beltline began to be more than just talk and vision, but actually something that was happening (of course my own firm and employees therein were but a small part in trying to make the vision a reality before we decided to make the Beltline a large part of the portfolio of one our funds).

The kind of private interest/effort that has spurred CoRk can be extended to the S-Line, and amplified (it takes mucho dinero and perseverance to make any of this sort of stuff a real success).  Talk about a real great way to connect neighborhoods and people!  One news channel did a video test, posted on YouTube of car vs pedestrian on Beltline vs biker on Beltline to get from point A to point B.  Biker won by something like 5 minutes over car for a 2-3 mile trip (of course that's also Atlanta traffic, not really a problem in inner city Jax).

https://www.facebook.com/#!/atlantabeltline?fref=ts
http://beltline.org/

[thelakelander]

^In comparison to the Pinellas Trail (when I made that statement), I don't think the Beltline is any level of "special" above it. A significant amount of collaboration and thinking went into those particular projectst than the S-Line, which some of our older forum members will remember, many on Metro Jacksonville opposed it's haphazard planning a few years back. 

Millennials, yuppies, etc. are never going to use the S-Line or any other facility in an area of town that isn't comfortable to them until that facility is tied directly into someplace that is.  From my experience, most of the people in those neighborhoods using it are on foot.  I notice a decent number of school age children use it to get to/from nearby schools and bus stops during the weeks. With all of that said, the mobility plan does provide funding to connect the S-Line with the Baldwin Trail, the rest of the urban core and city in general. We just need to make sure we don't lose or significantly delay such funding by continuing moratoriums on the fee.

They might if they knew it was even there. You have to remember that people in Riverside only have the Riverwalk & the road to ride on (which is extremely hit or miss), and thats basically it. You're right that most probably wouldn't because of where the entrance is (scary abandoned industrial area), but I bet some would at least give it a try if there was A: A clear path with signage pointing the way, even if the path used the existing road with bike lanes or sharrows. And B: More notoriety of the path/paths in general.

The mobility plan/fee are intended to private everything you mention here.  However, keep in mind, we're talking about a poorly planned project that had nothing to do with attracting people from Riverside to utilize. It was the simple case of the city getting a rails-to-trails grant for an abandoned piece of rail ROW the city owned.  If that "free money" were not there, neither would the S-Line Greenway be today.  The mobility plan/fee is the only thing I'm aware of that even acknowledged its existence back in 2009-2011 and attempted to utilize it as a part of an overall connected bike network.

Even if the moratoriums continue (which I personally think they will), there's still minor things they could do to make it somewhat useful/attractive. But discontinuing the moratorium & building it out properly would of course be the ultimate solution. I feel the trail will become stagnant & forgotten about otherwise left as is.

Hopefully, you're wrong and we can continue to get enough people from the community to fight to keep another moratorium from happening.  Even minor things cost money and we at least have a funding source to start with, with the mobility fee.  Also, the mobility fee isn't an end all solution.  It's only a start.  Lose that and we go back to ground zero with no sustainable local funding to do what you mentioned above.

[peestandingup]

Heard from a friend that about 3 of his cyclist friends got held up & robbed at gun point on the trail a couple weeks ago. Police were called, but never responded. Figures, I've talked about the shadiness of the trail & lack of people presence for a while now & how it will ultimately impact it.

Other cities have experienced similar problems with their urban trails & have taken action to fix it (like cycle cops patrolling the trails). Not that I think Jax will do that (or even put any of that type of resources towards it), but still. You cant put a trail through blighted parts of an urban core, with not a lot of people presence & with the entrances themselves being in similar areas that are also difficult to get to, without there being problems.

[peestandingup]

  We cycled the greenway last weekend. Not complete but the asphalt and curb work is done and we couldn't resist. We weren't the only ones out there, it was hot, sticky, dirty and not even open and folks were using it. My hunch is it will be received well.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1685797

I hope so. We biked all the way through it today (thanks for the map BTW), but went in on the Myrtle end. There was A LOT of broken glass & the trail enters at (and goes through) some rough parts of town. I personally don't mind any of that (besides the glass, because flats suck), but could see how it might turn some people off.

The broken glass, and lack of maintenance, is still a major problem with this trail. Saw this on R.A.M. Ride's Facebook today when the group went out for a ride this morning: https://www.facebook.com/197736616951856/photos/a.623459381046242.1073741864.197736616951856/655161374542709/

As I've said here many times, this stuff is typical & the general lack of the city giving a shit is very apparent. S-Line being part of "the key to urban revitalization" with these bone heads at the wheel? Don't count on it.

[peestandingup]

I can see no one's doing a followup to this "economic revitalization" piece, or even asking questions as to why this trail is being so poorly maintained. The old "build it & let it go to shit" Jax mindset we all know & love is hard at work with this thing.

Here was my ride on Saturday (which BTW I saw exactly zero other cyclists on the entire trail). The glass stretches as far as you can see in this pic. Also notice how "maintenance" have simply pushed the broken pieces to the edges instead of removing them. Wonderful.

[thelakelander]

Without fixed rail, there won't be any type of true revitalization along this corridor. It still has potential, but until we implement, it will remain just that......potential.

[Ocklawaha]

Broken glass lasts forever, it also has many irregular angles and edges, thus it packs well with crushed granite. Nothing wrong here that 3,000 cross ties per mile and a couple lengths of 120# CWR wouldn't fix.

[Elwood]

Agreed. You want revitalization? Better get busy laying some rail.

[peestandingup]

Without fixed rail, there won't be any type of true revitalization along this corridor. It still has potential, but until we implement, it will remain just that......potential.

I get that, but because we don't have rail yet doesn't mean you let things like this go down the crapper does it? That's a great way to create loss of interest, which then dominos into other things. This is shameful & whoever is responsible for maintaining this should be held accountable. I mean, it would be different if this weren't such a common thing, but it's like this literally every..single..time I've been on this trail. Is it any wonder no one uses it?

And I get that it's the residents of the blighted neighborhoods that the trail goes through treating it like its a garbage dump (with probably a healthy dose of gentrification backlash), but still. Proper maintenance should be a given on public pathways. If this were on the street you'd never hear the end of it.