Southside Construction Update - January 2013

[Metro Jacksonville]

Southside Construction Update - January 2013



A brief look at the status of various projects under construction in and around Jacksonville's Edge City, the Southside.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jan-southside-construction-update-january-2013

[Noone]

That's a lot of Development. interesting with the Concorde Career Institute and the exodus from Arlington. The carpool parking lot is also unique or is it? Any idea of the number of people with that relocation?

[Bill Hoff]

Thank you for reminding me why I dislike the suburbs.  : )

[thelakelander]

That's a lot of Development. interesting with the Concorde Career Institute and the exodus from Arlington. The carpool parking lot is also unique or is it? Any idea of the number of people with that relocation?

It employed 120 at the Arlington location with a capacity for 700 students.  The move to the Southside increases their capacity to 900 students.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2012/05/18/construction-set-for-new-concorde.html?page=all

[chipwich]

By this article, I am counting 1,568 new apartment units coming online at about the same time.  I would say this constitutes an overbuild of muti-family rentals in Jacksonville.

REIT money seems to be dumping into multi-family since retail and office are saturated at the moment.

[fsujax]

Always good to see the Mayo Clinic expanding. We are lucky to have them here.

[spuwho]

Interesting, I had never heard of the term "Edge City" before but it fits.

It's layout is indeed based on reliance on an automobile, it doesn't have to be that way by design. I believe you can still have "edge" development with TOD capabilities.

I am sure this will bring out the "suburbs are evil" dialog, but they are a part of the economics of the nation. To ignore it would place your head in the sand. We should be finding ways to improve edge city design.

Without quality metro "core" planning, people and their dollars will go elsewhere. In this case, they go to the "edge".

I agree, its a lot of rental units hitting the market at the same time, however, with certain people unable to get mortgages, rentals have been a growth market. It's a total flip from 2005-2006 when rentals were converting to condo because almost anyone could get a mortgage.

[gedo3]

Thanks for the explanation of what an edge city is.  I had a totally different--and incorrect!--concept.  Your explanations are also very handy--and very clear!

[thelakelander]

I am sure this will bring out the "suburbs are evil" dialog, but they are a part of the economics of the nation. To ignore it would place your head in the sand. We should be finding ways to improve edge city design.

Several cities are doing this now. Over the years, we seen various Edge Cities such as Rossyln (DC), Silver Spring (DC), Texas Medical Center (Houston), Bloomington (Minneapolis), Mission Valley (San Diego), Kendall (Miami), etc. start to urbanize around mass transit lines that connect these districts with their downtowns/urban cores, spurring infill TOD opportunities for both.

In all of our transit discussions, I've always felt we may not be properly taking advantage of the possibilities the JTB corridor brings to the table.  For example, people want transit between DT and the Beach, but shouldn't a major investment of any kind include direct connectivity to Southpoint, Deerwood Park, SJTC, UNF, Mayo, etc.?  If that's the case, why is Beach Boulevard always seen as the preferred potential corridor?  With BRT, we're pushing to connect the Northside with the Southside via Philips Highway but such a service completely misses the opportunity to tie into where most of the Southside's core destinations are, which means ridership could suffer despite major investments in building something.

[thelakelander]

Here's an example of Edge City development becoming walkable nodes of urbanism around transit stations in the middle of suburbia.  Out of all the places in Jax, I could easily envision the same thing taking place in the Southside.




An aerial of the Courthouse Station urban village and surrounding suburban area.




Tallest around transit stations and a drop off in scale and density, ultimately leveling out with pre-existing single-family home development.

[mbwright]

Interesting to see so much wood frame construction.  With the high number of termites, and hurricanes, this does not make much sense.  SIP and other forms of construction would be better. I remember my apartment in college, you could hear and feel every door close (it would shake) and every person walking in the apartment above.

[tufsu1]

DC is the epicenter for the Edge City concept...height restrictions and government dominance of the downtown core led many private sector employers to the edges along the Capital Beltway....but as Ennis has noted, places like Roslyn-Ballston, Bethesda, and Silver Spring have grown into fairly walkable places....and the King of the Edge City, Tysons Corner, is about to get remade with the addition of Metrorail service.

Note that Christopher Leinberger of ULI has studied these places extensively....and has coined the term WalkUPs (Walkable Urban Places) to describe what are often suburban mixed-use districts.

[CityLife]

Great piece Ennis and great post TUFSU. I've never been to Tyson's Corner, but have read a little about before. Design wise how does it compare to the Town Center? IF there was ever comparable demand at the Town Center, would it even be possible to replicate Tyson's Corner? Isn't it somewhat boxed in by UNF, Butler, and existing development?

[tufsu1]

Sadly, the Town Center area is nowhere near the density of Tysons Corner....even though it was clearly developed around the car, SR 123 (Chain Bridge Road) and SR 7 (Leesburg Pike) serve as the spines of the area and can be tamed for better pedestrian access....I think a better comparison in FL to Tysons Corner is Tampa's Westshore district.

That said, Town center can be densified too...its all about replacing surface parking with garages....which is what has happened at Tysons Corner over the years

[Ocklawaha]

Why do you hate Jacksonville so much?  Why do we care about examples from other places? Everything is perfect here!

(Okay, I-10 East, I commented for you.)