Homeless Center In the Old Armory Building...Brilliant!

[thelakelander]

Does anyone have an idea on what sites the social service providers like on that list?

[Bill Hoff]

I've been told the Task Force charged with selecting a site prefers 905 W. Forsyth, a former Lee & Cates Glass warehouse, directly next to the Salvation Army.

But the Mayor's lead on this issue, Mr. Tillis DeVaughn, preferred the Armory.

Referring to the article, it's disturbing that doing it on the cheap seems to be their #1 priority. This is a long-term strategic decision.

Good grief.

[thelakelander]

905 W. Forsyth makes sense, considering it directly opens up to Salvation Army. Any reason why the more expensive Armory is desired?  Considering its size, what else would they see going into that space?

[Timkin]

Debbie, I just found the list on the TU's website. The nine sites are:

1. Armory 851 N Market Street 80,862 SF 88,200 SF City owned
2. Genover’s Hall 644 W Ashley Street 5,340 (unfinished) 11025 SF City owned
3. Vacant Church/Bldg (Talleyrand) 639 Talleyrand Avenue 5,992 (two buildings) 15015 SF Not City-owned
4. Behind City Rescue Mission 234 W State Street 19,170 40424 SF Not city-owned
5. Property behind Salvation Army 905 Forsyth Street 7,370 11025 SF City owned
6. Former Pub Bldg Office #1 928 N Liberty Street 7,113 SF 120,000 SF City owned
7. Former Pub Bldg Office #2 928 N Liberty Street 9,002 SF 120,000 SF City owned
8. Former Pub Bldg Office #3 928 N Liberty Street 5,788 SF 120,000 SF City owned
9. Miller Machinery 601 East Church Street building demolished 43629 SF Not city-owned



http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-17/story/cost-will-be-big-factor-jacksonvilles-selection-homeless-day-center-site

Genovar's Hall is one of the proposed properties?? Seriously?

I presume if this one is even tabled for consideration, the shell of the building would  be demolished. While I hate to lose another historic site, there is little there , now , anyway.  Id rather lose it , than any other place that is endangered.

The Armory certainly has more than enough space.  I wish the building could be utilized in another way.. a venue of some kind, museum space or , something that makes it a destination.  It is a beautiful old building.  Of course, rather than it being vacated and trashed as seems to be the norm , then Id rather see it used for this purpose.

Property #4 , make sense, space and location-wise.   All require retrofit, or demolition / new-build , or extensive renovation.   

Obviously a place is needed.   There are other vacant buildings in downtown that possibly could fit the criteria and probably will not otherwise be renovated, for  any other purpose .  The Davis Furniture Building at 135 Broad Street comes to mind.  Probably not one the City would consider , but close enough to the Sulzbacher Center,  CRM, and Clara White,  Probably space-wise adequate.   A building that will probably otherwise not have a chance of ever being renovated, and in an area that is workable , I would think, for all concerned.

[Bill Hoff]

905 W. Forsyth makes sense, considering it directly opens up to Salvation Army. Any reason why the more expensive Armory is desired?  Considering its size, what else would they see going into that space?

Lake,

I don't think much thought was put into it all.

If it's city owned, not being used, and near Downtown it seems it was on the list.

They also entertained the 9th & Main building, if you can believe it.

Maybe that's why COJ hasn't been cooperative with interesed buyers of late.

[JaxByDefault]

I just looked through the list. It seems that #6, #7, and #8 on the list are also in Spingfield--literally next door to the Armory. These are part of a city owned cluster of buildings. Does anyone know what condition they're in?

[sheclown]

The old Lee and Cates warehouse seems ideal. 

[thelakelander]

^I agree.  It basically opens up to what Salvation Army already has in place.

[02roadking]

Won't they need some kind of COA for this?
Is the building up to code for this?
Who will manage the Center?
What services will be offered at this Center?
What exactly is the goal for for this Center, and is the goal attainable at this location?
Does the city even have a plan or goal for homelessness in this city?
Too many questions.

[If_I_Loved_you]

^I agree.  It basically opens up to what Salvation Army already has in place.

The old Lee & Cates glass warehouse isn't a good idea at all! It's to close to the "Sally Corporation" we don't need to tick these people off and have them move from the area. 

[CityLife]

Won't they need some kind of COA for this?
Is the building up to code for this?
Who will manage the Center?
What services will be offered at this Center?
What exactly is the goal for for this Center, and is the goal attainable at this location?
Does the city even have a plan or goal for homelessness in this city?
Too many questions.

No COA needed, it's outside of the Historic District. Doesn't sound like its up to code. The Times Union article cites an earlier study that estimates the cost of rehab at 9.6 million. The city could easily build or acquire a more appropriately located building for much less.

Those are great questions...along with what will the long term implications be for Springfield/Eastside and the State/Union corridor? How will the new center affect property taxes in surrounding areas? What are the potential losses in city revenue (property taxes) at sites like the Armory vs. the upfront cost of locating in an area with less redevelopment potential? What location do homeless services people feel will be most beneficial to their work? How does the general public feel? How do surrounding residents, businesses, organizations feel?

Like I said in another post...it looks like Mayor Brown put a guy in way over his head on this. Which is pretty evident by how the whole process has been boggled.

[John P]

Debbie, I just found the list on the TU's website. The nine sites are:

1. Armory 851 N Market Street 80,862 SF 88,200 SF City owned
2. Genover’s Hall 644 W Ashley Street 5,340 (unfinished) 11025 SF City owned
3. Vacant Church/Bldg (Talleyrand) 639 Talleyrand Avenue 5,992 (two buildings) 15015 SF Not City-owned
4. Behind City Rescue Mission 234 W State Street 19,170 40424 SF Not city-owned
5. Property behind Salvation Army 905 Forsyth Street 7,370 11025 SF City owned
6. Former Pub Bldg Office #1 928 N Liberty Street 7,113 SF 120,000 SF City owned
7. Former Pub Bldg Office #2 928 N Liberty Street 9,002 SF 120,000 SF City owned
8. Former Pub Bldg Office #3 928 N Liberty Street 5,788 SF 120,000 SF City owned
9. Miller Machinery 601 East Church Street building demolished 43629 SF Not city-owned



http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-17/story/cost-will-be-big-factor-jacksonvilles-selection-homeless-day-center-site

Let me get this straight. They go from wanting an 80000 square foot building to considering 5000 foot square buildings? Who is running this monkey show?

[02roadking]

A comment from yesterday's article:

From May of 2006 until Sep 2010(with a couple of attempts to get off the streets) I was homeless in this city and one of the hardest things to do was navigate the scattered services maze. From Sulzbacher, Clara White, City Rescue Mission, Trinity, Salvation Army to the various churches and other organizations, it was a jigsaw puzzle. The problem with ANY attempt at a solution is the "NIMBY" syndrome. No one wants a homeless shelter in their backyard, but it's ok to put one in someone else's backyard. I got off the streets thanks to a LOT of people who believed in me and gave me support. But no matter how many people open doors for you, you still have to walk through them. I have a different perspective because I've been there and done that. There needs to be consolidation of services for the homeless, not this scattershot and haphazard system in place now. No matter where a "day shelter/drop-in center is located there will be issues. It's just the nature of the beast. But if ALL the organizations providing help could be found under one roof or on the same property, it would be easier to A) know how many homeless there are, B)make it easier for those homeless who choose to get off the streets do so and C) show a little more compassion than having people who have had very little sleep and not much food(try living the street life for one week or even one day) walking all over the city looking for help. That's one of the main reasons that Hemming Plaza is filled with homeless, because eventually one gets fed up and tired of walking all over the city looking for assistance. And I'm not talking about the percentage of homeless who choose to be there and choose to chuck society. Those folks were in Hemming Plaza when I arrived here homeless a little over six years ago.



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-16/story/possible-site-homeless-day-center-raises-ire-springfield-neighbors#ixzz29eWn3Nbj

[thelakelander]

^I agree.  It basically opens up to what Salvation Army already has in place.

The old Lee & Cates glass warehouse isn't a good idea at all! It's to close to the "Sally Corporation" we don't need to tick these people off and have them move from the area. 

Doesn't sound like your familiar with what already takes place behind that old building. 

[CityLife]

Thanks for linking that Roadking. I've always thought we should consolidate our services in one central location, either in an area like the Dennis Street District that Lake has mentioned, or on a rural piece of land away from residential districts, but importantly with a bus line and free bus passes.

The homeless put a huge, huge burden on the city and its residents. I once sat through a presentation by the head of the Jail, who listed the top 10 or so most active recidivist criminals (who were all homeless/vagrants DT). They were each arrested an appalling amount of times per year. Something like 15-25 times each. This was a few years ago, but if I remember correctly, the cost of just those 10 or so to the city was something like $1 million a year in wasted JSO time, prosecution, jail bookings, jail stays, etc.

Then look at the cost to our local hospitals. Shands gets absolutely crushed by having to provide hospital services to the homeless, and I believe St. Vincents, and the Southbank hospitals get hit hard too.

Then there is the issue of downtown revitalization. Look you can spin it all you want and mock people for being afraid to live, work, and play downtown because of the homeless (I'm not)...but you cannot deny that they do hinder DT in numerous ways. And like that former homeless person said, DT isn't exactly a great atmosphere for the homeless.

So consolidate all services somewhere where ALL parties can benefit. Get Shands, St. Vincents, Baptist, etc to open a great clinic there and limit their losses. Open a mental health clinic there, a pharmacy, a VA branch. Give them everything they need from a mental health and health perspective. Then use the land to teach them sustainable agriculture practices, teach them how to manufacture things, get them GED's, and vocational training. Make sure that they have bus access to the rest of the city for job opportunities.

I could go on and on, but to keep it short, consolidating services will not just benefit downtown and Jacksonville residents, but also the cities budget, and the quality of life of its residents. Additionally, the homeless could be much better served through targeted efforts and not a scattering of services.

Hopefully the day center will just be a temporary band aid, until we can get some leadership that are willing to think big picture.