Underwood speaks: If only the Navy had returned

[thelakelander]

By Special to the Times-Union

A recent column by Ron Littlepage mischaracterized the referendum in 2006 to return Cecil Field to the Navy.

While the voters rejected it, there is a substantial difference between, as Littlepage put it, "going home with your tail between your legs" and hanging your head in disappointment at the lack of vision by the political leaders.

With the East Coast Master Jet base, Jacksonville would have gained over 32,000 high-paying new jobs and become an oasis in a state hard hit by a recession.

Rather than a $22 billion economic impact, Cecil Commerce Center continues to flounder. City leaders' promise of big things to come at Cecil hasn't materialized.

For example, just three weeks ago, Embraer, the world's third-largest aircraft manufacturing company, left the commerce center high and dry when it established its headquarters and $51 million investment in Melbourne.

Instead of a real estate boon with 12,500 military service members and their families moving into our region, our housing market continues to suffer and home values continue to fall.

Instead of an increase in Jacksonville's tax base by tens of millions of dollars, city government is struggling to make ends meet and politicians advocate new fees to offset dwindling tax revenues.

And, instead of our Navy pilots conducting training missions in an environment that provides them with the complete skills necessary to protect America, the Navy is still seeking a solution for the problems at Oceana Naval Air Station that degrade our military readiness.

Jacksonville is the economic engine of Northeast Florida, and its influence and impact does not end at the county line.

Likewise, there is a long list of successful CEOs, entrepreneurs and executives who reside in Jacksonville's surrounding counties, but they play important roles in fueling this engine.

The effort to return the Navy to Cecil Field was a regional issue with national implications that extended far beyond arbitrary county lines.

Littlepage's effort to divide our community by geography and income, and, now, by musical taste, is shortsighted.

KEN UNDERWOOD

Ponte Vedra Beach

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/061808/opl_291975153.shtml

[copperfiend]

This is the same type of talk that we heard two years from Mr. Underwood. Him and his contractor friends really fought hard for the possible return of the Navy to Cecil but the voters rejected this idea. Why is Ron Littlepage the target of his editorial and not the voters of Jacksonville? And how does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid to by out the leases and help relocate the businesses that currently reside in Cecil Commerce Center? How does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid for the infrastructure improvements that would have been necessary for the Navy to return? How does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid to build new schools to handle the influx of new residents? I think more than anything the following quote from him is the most telling.

Likewise, there is a long list of successful CEOs, entrepreneurs and executives who reside in Jacksonville's surrounding counties, but they play important roles in fueling this engine.

Gee, who would he be talking about?

[heights unknown]

I agree wholeheartedly.  I think what Mr. Littlepage didn't and don't realize is that if you juggle the balls correctly, you can have your cake and eat it too.  There was and still is a way to keep Cecil Commerce Center and have the Cecil Field Navy Base operate on the same land.

As a retired Navy Veteran who served three times at NAS Cecil Field during my 20 year Naval Career, that real estate out there that used to be Cecil Field is huge, and the majority of it was unused; and yes there is a way it could have been split or separated to field the two massive organizations together...in my opinion we didn't have to run the Commerce Center out of town to solely accomodate the return of the Navy to Cecil.

As the aforementioned message stated, this was a "huge" opportunity for Jacksonville to regain something extremely valuable that was lost, and to bring in a "huge" tax base and massive impetus to give Jax a shot in the arm that would have almost ensured that we would be immune from the troubling economic mess that currently plagues the area, State, and the nation.

Another lost opportunity is the thousands of future Sailors that would have had an opportunity to know and love Jacksonville, and after their tour or stint in the Navy, whether 2, 4, 10 or 20 years, they may have continued to provide economic support for our City by retiring and making Jacksonville home..."the more the merrier," and the more prosperous for Jax!  We have thousands of military personnel and retirees who have made Jax home after their tour and stint in the Navy was over...whether Veterans or Retirees.

Yes, in my mind this was a lost opportunity and a "fumbling of the football" at the 5 yard line short of a touchdown.

Shame on the Jax Leadership and in particular Mr. Littlepage.

Heights Unknown

[vicupstate]

None of the promised benefits that Mr. Underwood describes would be occurring now, because Virginia Beach and Virginia would have tied the whole thing up in red tape.  If the base had ever moved, it would be only after years of court cases and political fights. 

Cecil field is floundering because of the same reason the city as a whole is floundering, poor leadership.  The JEDC had a staff member dedicated to Cecil Field.  That position was cut from the budget.  if the money spent on Scott Teagle nonsense had instead been invested in the JEDC  and Cecil Field, it would be faring better.       

[heights unknown]

This is the same type of talk that we heard two years from Mr. Underwood. Him and his contractor friends really fought hard for the possible return of the Navy to Cecil but the voters rejected this idea. Why is Ron Littlepage the target of his editorial and not the voters of Jacksonville? And how does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid to by out the leases and help relocate the businesses that currently reside in Cecil Commerce Center? How does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid for the infrastructure improvements that would have been necessary for the Navy to return? How does Mr. Underwood think the city would have paid to build new schools to handle the influx of new residents? I think more than anything the following quote from him is the most telling.

Likewise, there is a long list of successful CEOs, entrepreneurs and executives who reside in Jacksonville's surrounding counties, but they play important roles in fueling this engine.

Gee, who would he be talking about?

I am not a politician, and...it is not my job to provide plans and initiatives for such an undertaking that Mr. Underwood proposes; but my idiom throughout most of my life has been..."never take no for an answer," and, "if there is a will there is a way;" that's why the Jax leadership, politicians, and others who have the Masters Degrees and P.H.D.'s in these areas
make the big bucks...to get their noodle (brain) moving and think, and earn those big bucks!

As I said in my previous message, in my opinion the Navy could have been brought back without kicking the Commerce Center out or even relocating them; and I agree with your message regarding the amount of work and huge undertaking that would have been involved by the City, and the money needed to provide and support such a move; but remember, those thousands of people that would have RETURNED to Jax would have been the thousands or more that were lost in the first place...and yes, Jax has grown immensely since 1999, but it hasn't grown so much to the point as not being able to support a slightly larger population of people that would have replaced what was lost; and...the City finds ways to waste or spend money other ways, and I am sure they, or someone, would have found a way, if they performed their job correctly, of finding the money to support returning the Navy to Cecil Field; I know it could have been done.

I agree with Mr. Underwood...that this was a lost opportunity, plain and simple.  If the City can provide tax incentives, and financial support for other businesses and organizations that are seeking to make a move to Jax, the same could have been done for the return of the Navy to Cecil.  And yes, it would have been a massive undertaking, much much larger than a Corporation or Business with 400 employees coming to Jax (with the Navy we're talking thousands), but I'll bet that we would have had a much more prosperous and even more sure return on our investment; it would not have been a lost cause.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

None of the promised benefits that Mr. Underwood describes would be occurring now, because Virginia Beach and Virginia would have tied the whole thing up in red tape.  If the base had ever moved, it would be only after years of court cases and political fights. 

Cecil field is floundering because of the same reason the city as a whole is floundering, poor leadership.  The JEDC had a staff member dedicated to Cecil Field.  That position was cut from the budget.  if the money spent on Scott Teagle nonsense had instead been invested in the JEDC  and Cecil Field, it would be faring better.       

If the base had moved from where...Virginia Beach?  The Navy was already considering and pondering a move from Oceana, and still is the last I read; from the Navy's position, they think they may have made a mistake by moving to Virginia Beach (Oceana).  Plain and simple, we (Jax) didn't affirmatively, aggressively, and staunchly throw our hat "into the ring" to let the Navy know we were serious about bringing the Navy back to Cecil.  Jax leadership, if I remember correctly, couldn't decide what to do or how to plan to bring the Navy back and keep the Commerce Center at Cecil or relocate it to another area of town; it appears Jax leadership got scared that it would be "too much work and too much fuss," so they did not aggressively or positively promote the Navy's return to Cecil in a good light to the public.  The voters primarily vote in accordance with what City leadership and the powers that be inject in their minds regarding the issue; and the Cecil issue was promoted in a more negative vain.

I agree with the reason why the Cecil Commerce Center is not being successful...which is the same reason why the return of the Navy to Cecil was voted down...poor and failed leadership, that I agree with!

Heights Unknown

[civil42806]

The thing that amazes me about this discussion is the failure to address the costs and what would be required to resestablish Cecil Field.  It seems as though everyone thinks that the base was setting out there ready to be reoccupied.  Mind you the decision to close Cecil Field was a Major mistake by the DOD.  The Minor bases at Beaufort SC, Atlanta and dallas should have been closed and the squadrons consolidated at Cecil.  This would have fully utilizied the base and cut significant costs for the military.  Instead the DOD cut one of the few bases that was isolated and had signifcant expansion capabilities.  BUT  by the time the discussion of the Navy returning, the base was basically gone.   The hangars were still there, occupied by various companies and organizations, but nothing else was left.  All the base housing was gone, taken down due to having asbestos shingles and floor tiles, the AIMD was disassembled, the commissary, and clinic was destroyed.   Estimates I have seen stated that at least 500million - 750 millon would be required to reestablish the base.  There has to be a more cost effective way to get an effective base established.  The fact is Oceana is a a major impeditment to training.  As many exess bases that the AF has is seem that a transfer to an established air force should be more cost effective

[vicupstate]

The decision to close Cecil and keep Oceana open has a huge mistake based on political considerations alone.  VA had Sen. Warner and that is what decided it.

To rectify the error would have been too costly.  And it was the NAVY that insisted that the Commerce park be emptied.   

[Ocklawaha]

1. LEE FIELD - Green Cove Springs
2. CAMP BLANDING - Clay County
3. LAKE CITY - Columbia County

Any one of which could be THE MASTER JET BASE of the future. All would effect Jacksonville in skill and population without the roar.

Ocklawaha

[Driven1]

Underwood makes some valid and very strong points.  Littlepage as usual is a saber rattler, twisting words and statistics and, in general, using rhetoric to divide the community.  Hard to argue this point...

With the East Coast Master Jet base, Jacksonville would have gained over 32,000 high-paying new jobs and become an oasis in a state hard hit by a recession.

Rather than a $22 billion economic impact, Cecil Commerce Center continues to flounder. City leaders' promise of big things to come at Cecil hasn't materialized.

For example, just three weeks ago, Embraer, the world's third-largest aircraft manufacturing company, left the commerce center high and dry when it established its headquarters and $51 million investment in Melbourne.

Btw...this post is coming from someone who actually opposed bringing Cecil back.  If I remember correctly, Lake was a strong proponent FOR bringing them back here - or at least studying the issue more (which I could understand).  I was wrong.  So was Littlepage and our civic leaders.  The difference is, I will admit it and they will not.

[thelakelander]

I was a strong proponent for studying the issue with facts, as opposed to propaganda.  I don't believe we ever made it to the fact finding stage, but that bridge has now been crossed.  However, I was (and still am) opposed to building more tract home residential development closer to the base's runways.  I don't know how things would have turned out if we went the other way, but given our tract record, seeing Cecil still struggle a few years later should not be a suprise to anyone.  In fact, I'd be more suprised if it boomed as predicted by City Hall.

[jandar]

The most important thing that everyone seems to forget about Cecil Field:

Thousands of homes were built in zones that not marked for aviation use. These houses were approved and built for a general use near a decommissioned base.

The cost for my home to upgrade it to an acceptable level to handle the noise (so I could sleep at night) was upwards of 50K, all on a 3 year old home (at that time).

Thousands of homes would have had to been redone. Most of them in Clay County, the county that did not have a voice in the vote. Something Mr. Underwood in his Ponte Vedra beach front home would not care about, nor would the legal ramifications hurt him.

The City of Jacksonville would have been faced with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit with this issue.

Mr. Underwood also had a rather large interest in a development near St Augustine that was trying to lure the same types of businesses that Cecil Commerce does.

His was not a patriotic thing, it was a business deal to him. He hid behind the flag.

[reednavy]

Still waiting on those cargo companies.

Still think they should've moved JIA down to Cecil.

[thelakelander]

Mr. Underwood also had a rather large interest in a development near St Augustine that was trying to lure the same types of businesses that Cecil Commerce does.

What development is this?

[Ocklawaha]

LEE FIELD - GREEN COVE SPRINGS - Bring it back! Untouched since 1960, longer main runway, and nothing to fly over but cows. Approach from the north and because of a jog in the river, nothing but a 4 mile wide river to fly over. Excellent approach and location, within ez commuter drive to St Augustine or Jax. and on the best route for Commuter Rail.

Camp Blanding, Keystone Heights Airport or another new facility, unlimited space and nothing to fly over but native forests. A base that has already been upgraded to a class 2 base and many facilities reopened. The only downside is the Blanding Blvd mess. Though there are 2 old rail beds to Penny Farms and Green Cove with a bit of patch work perhaps they could be used. Blanding itself has 20+ miles of US ARMY Railroad that links at Starke to CSX. Thus a Gainesville - Jax Commuter train could have a Camp Blanding NAS sister train set. Further Camp Blanding is the originial property the government bought for NAS JAX.

Ocklawaha