Do we need a convention center?

[JFman00]

This article seems to suggest no; that a new convention center would be chasing after a shrinking pie with a white elephant.

Christopher Leinberger, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program and former partner at an international real estate consulting firm, says that too many cities bought into the same dream at the same time.

"So many were saying, 'all you have to do is get one percent of the national market and you'll do just fine,'" he says. "Three hundred cities bought the same logic."

As a result, too many convention centers struggle to provide the economic benefit they initially promised. "You need to look very carefully before building another convention center in this country," Leinberger says. These centers require huge investments, money that could be better used "to bolster the quality of life, the parks, the retailing, the homeless situation."

[Tacachale]

The real cost in these things is opportunity cost - spending money that then can't be put towards some other alternative. Unlike some other types of venues, for instance a baseball stadium or a performing arts venue, convention centers don't really bring in their own quality of life benefits beyond the money they theoretically bring in.

This is something we really need to consider, especially if the convention market is changing.

I'd say there are some things in our market to consider though - for one, we're currently don't have anything like a modern facility in the Prime Osborne, so a new center may be worthwhile even if the market was declining. For another, we're Florida, so we'd immediately have a leg up over a lot of our competition under any condition.

[JFman00]

Is it really worth trying to compete with Orlando/Miami/Tampa? Or even Savannah with it's modern convention center a short ferry ride away from a top-notch historical district?

[coredumped]

Is it really worth trying to compete with Orlando/Miami/Tampa? Or even Savannah with it's modern convention center a short ferry ride away from a top-notch historical district?

Yes. We also have some great historic areas in town, we just don't capitalize on it. Savannah wasn't in the best of shape years ago either, they just had enough sense to turn things around.

We're not going to attract huge events like Microsoft, or huge comic book conventions, but we could be a destination for smaller venues. (Monster truck jam collectable convention anyone? )

[simms3]

Convention centers are not totally about "large conventions", and also create space for corporate events, trade events, large-scale business meetings that need a hall or flex space, and they do bring quality of life events for people to go to like Boat and Car shows, home shows, balls, charity events, etc etc.  I worked on the Antique Show one year...and attended (a couple years), and it was so much fun and everybody had a really good time (working on it and attending).

In Jacksonville's case, if we had a medium-sized convention center or a better hotel with quality meeting space (the Hyatt is ok), we could attract regional ULI meetings and various business functions.  This would showcase the city a lot more than it is being showcased right now, and provides us the opportunity to make a good impression whereas at this point the only time most people of business see or hear of Jacksonville is in the media (not necessarily good).

Jacksonville could easily compete with Savannah because it has more direct flights/connections and more hotel rooms, and is in driving distance of a much larger population (all of FL).  We also have a port, so it's not like port-related conventions could not come to Jacksonville.

Hardly anyone competes with Orlando, and Miami's CC is in Miami Beach, and as a whole S FL and Tampa aren't major convention destinations and Jax could easily compete.

For all the talk of the CC business dying a slow death, the tourism industry is going up up and up (largely due to foreigners like the Chinese).  A CC is a big part of capturing that business, as is good press, things like quality beaches that cater to visitors as much as residents, etc etc.  Members of the media who come to town for a show or meeting and leave with a good impression can only do the city good rather than harm.

Obviously by this post you know where I stand   I live in a city with a downtown that would absolutely not survive without the convention business/tourism, so I have seen the impacts firsthand.

[cityimrov]

No.  Yes.   A convention center should come after we find a draw.  Convention centers should be a result, not a cause of people to come here.

Orlando: Which came first, the convention center or Disney World?
Las Vegas: Which came first the convention center or the casinos and resorts? 
Chicago: Which came first the convention center or the city's multiple attractions?

Now if we're going for the "cheapest convention rates in the nation" or "we'll beat their prices or your convention is free" thing, then that's a different story.

[JFman00]

I'm still skeptical. Coming from Chicago I'm very aware of the benefits that a convention center can have, but with everyone and their mother competing for conventions that are on a long-term downward trend, I'm of the school that we can come up with better uses for our downtown and riverfront areas especially when it comes to spending public money. If a hotel wants to double as a convention center à la the Mandalay Bay in Vegas, more power to them. But can we really afford another single-use structure with taxpayers footing hundred(s) of millions of dollars? I've never been, but could the Veteran's Arena double as exhibition space? It has the square footage on paper.

See Niagra Falls for a city that tried to convention center its way to success.

[Anti redneck]

Look around you. Yes!

[Tacachale]

^Jfman, I'm with you on being skeptical. Though I do think we need to consider our unique conditions. We're a large city in Florida that currently has no truly competitive convention center. When you have our weather, our beach, and our golf opportunities, but your convention business is behind places like Savannah, Louisville, and Detroit, you may not be capitalizing on all your assets.

[JFman00]

I can agree with that.

[thelakelander]

If we do a convention center here, it needs to be mixed use to generate foot traffic on an everyday basis.  A huge shell that's empty most of the year isn't going to provide downtown with the economic benefits everyone dreams about.

[tufsu1]

No.  Yes.   A convention center should come after we find a draw.  Convention centers should be a result, not a cause of people to come here.

Orlando: Which came first, the convention center or Disney World?
Las Vegas: Which came first the convention center or the casinos and resorts? 
Chicago: Which came first the convention center or the city's multiple attractions?

Baltimore: Which came first, the convention center or the inner harbor?

Answer....the convention center....the inner harbor area had a science museum that attracted very few...then came the convention center, followed by the acquarium and Harborplace...and look at the area now.

[cityimrov]

No.  Yes.   A convention center should come after we find a draw.  Convention centers should be a result, not a cause of people to come here.

Orlando: Which came first, the convention center or Disney World?
Las Vegas: Which came first the convention center or the casinos and resorts? 
Chicago: Which came first the convention center or the city's multiple attractions?

Baltimore: Which came first, the convention center or the inner harbor?

Answer....the convention center....the inner harbor area had a science museum that attracted very few...then came the convention center, followed by the acquarium and Harborplace...and look at the area now.

Wikipedia says the convention center have not met expectations.  The ship, the aquarium, and the other attractions surrounding it are doing pretty well.  Harborplace doesn't look like it needed the convention center to succeed.

Read this: http://bojack.org/images/baltimorereport.pdf
This reminds me of the courthouse.  The more people are distracted by it, the less attention everything else gets. 

[tufsu1]

^ the convention center hasn't met expectations?  guess that's why it has gone through several expansions over the years....from the report you cited:

THE CONVENTION CENTER
The Baltimore Convention Center, which opened in 1979, was built as an
economic development tool to attract to Baltimore conventions, trade shows and
meetings that would leave in the city millions of dollars spent on lodging, food,
entertainment and other services. Like many convention centers, it is a money-loser, a socalled
loss leader whose role is to bring to the city conventioneers who spend money at
hotels, restaurants and shops.

Built at a cost of $51.4 million, the 425,000 square-foot building included
115,000 square-feet of exhibition space and 40,000 square feet of meeting rooms.
Within a decade, it had become clear that the center lacked the size and amenities
to make Baltimore a major convention city. Consequently, city and state officials decided
on a major expansion and renovation. Completed with $100 million in state general
obligation and revenue bond funds and $50 million in city revenue bonds, the expanded
center opened in September 1996 and the renovation of the original space was completed
in April 1997. Tripled in size, the center now offers 300,000 square feet of exhibition
space, 85,000 square feet of meeting room space and a ballroom of 36,000 square feet.

believe me, the convention center brought people (locals) back to downtown Baltimore...in fact, we went to car and boat shows there when I was a kid....as for vistors, compare the # of hotel rooms downtown before the center was built (the Hyatt and Sheraton were linked to the center via a skkywalk) with the # of rooms today.

Your cited report talks about folks thinking Baltimore needs a convention-sized hotel adjacent to the center for it to succeed...guess what, WE ALREADY HAVE ONE!

Like Lakelander said above, all of the components of the Inner Harbor work together....as has been said here many times, convention centers rarely turn a profit (kind of like transit)....but the spinoff revenue in hotels, restaurants, and the like equates to a pretty nice overall ROI

[BackinJax05]

A convention center close to the Hyatt would be nice, but not right now. Obamanomics still has the economy in the toilet, and there are bigger local issues to deal with as well.

Besides, didnt we try a convention center once already?

The Prime Osborn center saved Jacksonville Terminal from the wrecking ball, and that was a success. As a convention center, though, Prime Osborn has been a total flop.