Do we need a convention center?

[finehoe]

I don't see any cities giving up, rather, every city seems to be expanding and trying to win new business. 

All the more reason for Jacksonville to spend the money on something more useful.

[simms3]

^^^My point was that if every city sees some benefit to enhancing convention business, they can't all be wrong...maybe there is intrinsic value that Jacksonville just doesn't understand since it's never really had robust convention business.  Maybe the net positives aren't necessarily with convention business itself, but a ripple effect it causes for the city.  Similar in fashion to building a useful light rail line - the light rail is expensive and a money loser, but produces presumably net positive economic effects over time.

[urbanlibertarian]

"My point was that if every city sees some benefit to enhancing convention business, they can't all be wrong"

I disagree.  Politicians will continue to support big projects intended to create jobs and economic growth in spite of studies and historical evidence that clearly show them to be bad investments of tax payer dollars because they will be long gone by the time the disappointing results are seen.

[thelakelander]

Any idea to how Milwaukee has created a situation where their's appears to be financially sustainable? Perhaps, whatever they are doing operationally should be considered locally, just as much as relocating and expanding.

[taylormiller]

I was actually just thinking of a similar idea Stephen. It's about people's creativity, not the space itself that can make the biggest difference.

A convention center would be great for TedTalks, trade shows, etc. But while we don't have one, why not utilize our resources to land a big one? Two of the best conventions a city could get is either the GOP or DNC convention every 4 years. Cleveland just landed the GOP convention and it'll be at the Quicken Loans Arena. Tampa had the GOP convention 2 years ago at the Times Forum, not their convention center. Charlotte had the 2012 DNC convention at the Time Warner Cable Arena, not their convention center. And then of course, there was the 2008 DNC convention at Invesco Field (imagine how cool that would look on the largest video boards in the world?!)
I know this thread is about having a facility for conventions that would most likely be meetings, conferences (a few dozen to a couple hundred people max.) But why not set a plan in motion for one of the biggest conventions you can? Obviously, the size of the event dictates the venue, so when you're talking about these events, you need space for around 15,000 people - making the Vet capable of hosting such an event, or even Everbank if there's ever another phenom like Obama circa 2008 capable of drawing 80k+ for a single political event. I would love to see Jacksonville throw its hat in the ring to be the host city for the 2020 or 2024 convention for either party.

The idea of having a convention center would be to attract medium-sized conventions, not DNC or GOP conventions - I get it. But while we don't have a 200,000 sq foot convention center where we can host medical conferences, academic summits, etc., why not look at comparable cities like Tampa, Charlotte and Cleveland and follow their lead and go after one of the two biggest conventions possible?

[thelakelander]

Lake, our local SMG contract does the same thing as the Milwaukee group, and they are also (obviously) profitable.  The just ship the money back to philadelphia.  And they don't have to make things profitable for anyone else in order to succeed.

So what we have is actually profitable and if remodeled/expanded and managed right, could be more profitable?

[simms3]

Something tells me Jax is a longgg way off from hosting either a DNC or a GOP national convention.  I've heard that the effort to putting on those conventions is akin to a Superbowl in some respects.  There is no way the city has the hotel rooms, logistics, sex appeal, or major swing/base voter city status to be a logical candidate.

I would think the small to mid-range conventions/exhibits are perfect for a Jacksonville.

A convention center is merely an amenity to a business center or economy.  Isn't Jacksonville's prime meeting space technically down in Southpoint and out at Ponte Vedra?  It's no wonder downtown isn't it.  If you amenitize downtown to foster a healthy, collaborative and convenient business environment, and pull in a little bit of tourism, too, then you have a political/economic/geographic shift back towards downtown as the center of town.

I don't think there's much reason to do business downtown or be downtown right now, but an appropriately sized and connected convention center convenient to activities and offices is one major tool that can potentially make a sizable difference.  It's not just about large exhibitions.  Convention centers have traditional meeting space and flex space, as well.  The Prime Osborn has meeting space that probably goes unused simply because the Hyatt is closer to office and activities and connected to hotel rooms.

[taylormiller]

Something tells me Jax is a longgg way off from hosting either a DNC or a GOP national convention. 

No doubt Simms. We definitely could not host a convention in 2 years, but why not plan on it for 2024? If memory serves me correctly, we made our push to host the Superbowl back in 98 or 99 and we were subsequently awarded it in 2000 giving us 5 years of prep time. Why not aim for 10 years out for something like that? And I don't think many people would say Cleveland has much sex appeal, but they got one. Why not us? And Florida is definitely a swing state; conventions are starting to be held in battleground states more frequently i.e., Tampa, FL; Charlotte, NC; Cleveland, OH; Denver, CO (in '08 it was considered a swing state,) instead of traditionally blue or red states like PA or NY.

A convention center is merely an amenity to a business center or economy.  Isn't Jacksonville's prime meeting space technically down in Southpoint and out at Ponte Vedra?  It's no wonder downtown isn't it.  If you amenitize downtown to foster a healthy, collaborative and convenient business environment, and pull in a little bit of tourism, too, then you have a political/economic/geographic shift back towards downtown as the center of town.

ABSOLUTELY! I hope that this effectively answered the question "Do we need a convention center?" It'd be great, but it's not going to work if simply building one is the goal. Rather, a need to build a convention center would be the natural result of creating a better environment downtown. Doing things like putting in place a 25-30 year plan to move the holding facility, offer incentives to companies to relocate downtown, etc.; that will create the business climate needed to require a convention center in the downtown area. Great answer Simms!

[tufsu1]

But with a larger facility, we could (and in IMO would) be able to compete with places like Milwaukee, Tampa, Nashville, Charlotte.

Or, we could get out of the convention business altogether since study after study after study show the return on investment rarely makes it worthwhile.

most convention centers are loss leaders...meaning that while they lose money themselves, the spinoff revenue in hotel rooms, restaurants, nightlife, etc. more than makes up the difference.

[vicupstate]

While Political conventions are technically held in arenas, the Charlotte Convention Center was put into use as the media HQ during it's convention, and was completely filled.  There would definitely need to be much more than just an arena available to host a convention.  Conventions are 4 days too, much longer than a Super Bowl. 

It took longer than a decade before Charlotte was even taken seriously, much less awarded, its convention. JAX has a very long ways to go, if it wants to go that route.  The business community would have to put up sizeable funding too.  I don't see that happening.

[finehoe]

most convention centers are loss leaders...meaning that while they lose money themselves, the spinoff revenue in hotel rooms, restaurants, nightlife, etc. more than makes up the difference.

This is the claim, but studies show that the projections almost always promise positive externalities and multipliers that could, in a fanciful world, justify hundreds of millions in public subsidies. But those externalities are vague, opaque and almost impossible to measure. I don't think that any rational benefit-cost analysis can justify it in most places.

[urbanlibertarian]

most convention centers are loss leaders...meaning that while they lose money themselves, the spinoff revenue in hotel rooms, restaurants, nightlife, etc. more than makes up the difference.

This is the claim, but studies show that the projections almost always promise positive externalities and multipliers that could, in a fanciful world, justify hundreds of millions in public subsidies. But those externalities are vague, opaque and almost impossible to measure. I don't think that any rational benefit-cost analysis can justify it in most places.

Again, +1.

[Ocklawaha]

Like always I think this depends on how willing we are to get out of the comfortable box and pioneer a little bit. There are thousands of 'what if's' out there and there is no reason why it has to be a box locked up 5 days out of every week. I think when you put it in the context of pedestrian level 12/7/360 with plenty of lease space the picture changes dramatically.

EXAMPLES USING THE OLD COURTHOUSE LOCATION:
Couldn't we build a convention center box, surrounded by street level retail/restaurants along the Riverwalk, Bay and Market?
What about a adding a marine welcome center, Visit Jacksonville and small ship port (with a second level pedestrian bridge to the waterfront?
Could there be a direct physical link to at least two major hotels, Hyatt and ?
Take out a corner or use a building bump out or second floor for an attraction such as a museum, gallery, or kids space.
Consider value added services such as a hair stylist, nail salon and/or gym.
Attach the AQUA JAX aquarium?
Facilities for water sportsmen, small marina area, retail, and dedicated pier or Riverwalk space for fishermen.
...Then
JUST ADD STREETCARS!