Do we need a convention center?

[Jdog]

Boiled down for me it's the connectivity.  I can't reconcile disconnecting almost 90 percent of all downtown hotels given the transit investments. 

Question:


1. Is the current location a positive, negative, neutral, or who knows as far as AAF planning? 

[Tacachale]

It seems that it would be easier to improve connectivity with the the hotels rather than put additional work into the Prime Osborne's convention center and surrounding uses.

[icarus]

I've raised the issue in previous threads but ... what real convention business do we have?  I'm aware of very few events and very far in between said events being held at the Prime Osborne.

Most trade and business events that I have attended in the last 20 years have been held at Sawgrass Marriott. 

If we are trying to fill a niche market .. drop the old City Hall and expand exhibition space for use in conjunction with the Hyatt.

[jaxjaguar]

If we do build a new convention center first priority should be turning the Prime Osborn into a transport hub. We could save a lot of money by making it back into a train connection / bus stop / greyhound area rather than rebuilding everything all over again. I'm all for the Prime Osborn coming full circle if it means having a better, closer to the core and well managed convention center.

[finehoe]

Heywood Sanders, a professor at the University of Texas at San Antonio lays out in a new book, "Convention Center Follies." U.S. cities invested tens of billions of dollars, expanding convention center capacity by 30 percent since 2000, while the demand for the space has barely budged.

All those consultants' reports, it turns out, were based on optimistic assumptions and failed to anticipate the impact of industry consolidation and slower economic growth on the demand for meeting space. Even more curious was the consultants' failure to take into account all the other cities contemplating subsidized expansions — something they surely knew because the same group of firms had prepared virtually all of the reports.

Rather than acknowledge their mistakes, however, the convention industry convinced political leaders that the reason bookings had failed to meet expectations was that they didn't have a big "headquarters hotel" to offer convention planners, who value such hotels because they reduce the cost and complexity of running such large events. Curiously, the private sector has been reluctant to seize on this golden opportunity to build them, so dozens of cities concluded that they had no choice but to provide subsidies for the hotels as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/steven-pearlstein-debunking-the-conventional-wisdom-about-conventions/2014/06/27/77cac02e-fd5f-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

[tufsu1]

^ the same (flawed) logic is now being used to justify dredging ports up and down the east coast.

fact is cities have been (and will continue to be) competing with each other for decades.  While building/doing something may not catapult a city ahead of its competitors as much as may be projected, doing nothing almost always guarantees it will fall behind.

[thelakelander]

Option C: Build an exhibition hall box adjacent to the things we've already have and continue to subsidize. Perhaps them all feeding off of each other, puts all of them in better position to be fiscally viable long term.

Further explanation:

In Jax's case, we've already subsidized the headquarters hotel. It's the +900 room Hyatt. We've also subsidized the entertainment and retail....in the form of the Landing, Bay Street, Riverwalk, etc.  We're currently discussing pooring more money into the Landing. Unfortunately, all of of this public investment is a mile away from the exhibition hall, which is attached to a building that was designed (and should be converted back) to be a train station. If we're going to invest in a convention center, when one looks at the entire picture, it's cheaper to move the box into the right spot.

[ChriswUfGator]

Ennis we've had this debate 2 or 3 times in great detail, and I don't recall that it went that well for you any of them. But after 4 years of it, you've tired me out. You're clearly not going to change your mind despite all the available evidence, and they're going to waste my taxes on something or another anyway, so what's the difference. I'm staying out of it this time, build the stupid thing.

[marty904]

^ the same (flawed) logic is now being used to justify dredging ports up and down the east coast.

fact is cities have been (and will continue to be) competing with each other for decades.  While building/doing something may not catapult a city ahead of its competitors as much as may be projected, doing nothing almost always guarantees it will fall behind.

So in the two options you present:
a. doing something may not work
b. doing nothing may not work

the difference is that valuable real estate and millions of dollars is spent with the option 'a' vs. option 'b'

I think that the main thrust of the article is that you can't fix a flat tire by eating salmon.

Well said Stephen.  The difference is the massive cost to just "see what happens".

IMO how do we even talk about a new convention center without talking about a significant influx of hotels in the same breath? You can' be a significant convention town if you don't basic lodging supply to handle the visitors.  The fact that Jax had to enlist a bunch of cruise ships to act as floating hotels, when the superbowl was here, might be a good indicator that we are not in any position to be a significant convention town.

IF we are going to consider trying to be a competing convention town, it has to go hand in hand with making serious moves to entice hoteliers to the area that a proposed site for a convention center would be.

[thelakelander]

Ennis we've had this debate 2 or 3 times in great detail, and I don't recall that it went that well for you any of them. But after 4 years of it, you've tired me out. You're clearly not going to change your mind despite all the available evidence, and they're going to waste my taxes on something or another anyway, so what's the difference. I'm staying out of it this time, build the stupid thing.

LOL, good morning! Kind of sounds like bait. However, I fared just well and made my points pretty clear back then. I also don't think we'll change each other's minds either. I'm in Detroit for a few days so I won't be participating much in the discussion myself.

[thelakelander]

Cobo Hall in Downtown Detroit..

[Ocklawaha]

I still think it enhances the metropolitan area's appeal and ability to recruit new corporate residents, a sort of red carpet to tweak the senses. But since Ennis is on the other side of the Lake, Here's a couple of shots of 'The Milwaukee Center.' 

[tufsu1]

The Milwaukee convention center is a perfect example for Jacksonville.  It is not ridiculously large and fits quite well in its urban context.

[thelakelander]

Here is an image of Milwaukee's convention center and the hotel it is attached to:



The attached hotel is Hilton Milwaukee Center. It has 729 rooms.

More images of downtown Milwaukee:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-elements-of-urbanism-milwaukee#.U7v4BvldViY


The Wisconsin Center's exhibition hall (188,695sf) is more than double the size of the Prime Osborn's (78,500sf).

The building opened in 1998 and features 188,695 square feet (17,530.3 m2) of contiguous exhibit space along with a 37,506-square-foot (3,484.4 m2) ballroom. Naming rights were sold to Midwest Airlines. Skywalks connect the convention center to the nearby Hilton and Hyatt hotels. On April 13, 2010, Republic Airways Holdings CEO Bryan Bedford announced that the name would change to Frontier Airlines Center, coinciding with the consolidation of brands between Frontier and Midwest Airlines. On August 15, 2012, Delta Air Lines purchased the building's naming rights as part of the carrier's recent expansion at nearby General Mitchell International Airport.[2] The facility changed its name from the Frontier Airlines Center to the Delta Center after Delta purchased naming rights to the building. The change took place in November 2012.[3]

Art was incorporated early in the design stage and is the largest design-build project in Wisconsin. The Hilton's skyway entrance foyer floor features a green floor mosaic in the shape of Wisconsin, Michigan in gold, Minnesota, pink, Iowa red, and grey for Illinois. Region inlays represent area industries and dairy cows. A half dozen flush bronze containers contain different soil types.

It's architecture reinterprets the many historic German buildings found in downtown Milwaukee. Along with art-as-design features, the John J. Burke Family Collection is scattered throughout the interior.

On the Fourth Street side of the center is an outdoor reliquary garden titled City Yard. Created by artist Sheila Klein, it contains many iconic items from Milwaukee's DPW such as fire hydrants and the classic blue police call box. Within this area are planters containing ginkgo trees and a large monument with four limestone lion heads set in relief. These architectural elements were salvaged from the AT&T building that once stood nearby. [4]

Artist Vito Acconci created an indoor-outdoor sculpture titled Walkways Through the Wall. Designed to integrate private and public space, these curled terra cotta colored concrete strips flow through structural boundaries and provide seating at both ends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Center

[thelakelander]

They have a government body that manages it:

ABOUT US

Mission Statement
Governance
Funding
Operations
Economic Impact
Green Practices
History
The Future
Financial Information

The Wisconsin Center District (WCD) is a government body created under Wisconsin State Statute in 1994 to fund, build and operate the Midwest Express Center (now Wisconsin Center) in downtown Milwaukee, and continue operating the existing venues now called the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena and Milwaukee Theatre. Not a unit of state, county or city government, WCD is instead a semi-autonomous municipality called a "district," meaning its leaders are appointed and it can issue bonds and collect taxes within strict limits.

Mission Statement
The mission of the Wisconsin Center District: to maintain, and continuously build, our professional reputation in the convention, entertainment and sporting events industry on all levels, both locally and nationally; to present first class facilities in the twenty-first century; to provide the most effective use of space for our clients by utilizing the collective talents of all Wisconsin Center District employees; and to create and sustain jobs, income, and prosperity in the Greater Milwaukee community.

Governance
WCD is governed by an unpaid, fifteen-member Board of Directors statutorily appointed by the Governor, the Milwaukee County Executive,  the Mayor of Milwaukee and the Milwaukee Common Council President. The co-chairs of the State Legislature's Joint Finance Committee and the City of Milwaukee Comptroller serve on the board automatically, and two appointed members represent the hotel and restaurant industries, which derive the most benefit from a convention center.

The Wisconsin Center District Board of Directors currently consists of:

Franklyn M. Gimbel, Gimbel, Reilly, Guerin & Brown, Chairperson
James C. Kaminski, Kaminski Consultants, Vice Chairperson
Willie Hines, Secretary

Jason Allen, Foley & Lardner
Joseph Bartolotta, The Bartolotta Restaurants
Joel Brennan, Discovery World
Senator Alberta Darling, Wisconsin State Senate
Mayor Kathy Ehley, City of Wauwatosa
Alderman Ashanti Hamilton, City of Milwaukee
Representative Dale Kooyenga, Wisconsin State Assembly
Stephen H. Marcus, The Marcus Corporation
Martin Matson, City of Milwaukee Comptroller
Alderman Robert Puente, City of Milwaukee
Chris Schoenherr, Wisconsin Deputy Secretary of Administration
Jeff Sherman, OnMilwaukee.com

Russell Staerkel, Interim President & CEO

Funding
WCD receives no property tax money or Federal, State or local subsidy. Its operations are funded by operating revenues. Special sales taxes on hotel rooms, on prepared food and drinks sold in restaurants and taverns, and on car rentals repay a $185 million bond issue that funded the Midwest Express Center project, and provide funding to Visit Milwaukee. None of these tax revenues are used to fund WCD operations.

Within the boundaries of Milwaukee County, WCD collects 2.5% on rooms, 3% on car rentals, and 0.5% on food and beverage sales. It also receives a 7% hotel room tax formerly collected by the City of Milwaukee. In January, 2011, the county-wide hotel room tax increased from 2% to 2.5%; the increase was requested by hoteliers to provide additional funding for Visit Milwaukee.

This financial plan is supported by political and business leaders - in particular, Wisconsin's hotel and restaurant associations - as an investment in economic growth. Among U.S. cities, Milwaukee is rare in that its visitor taxes are used only for visitor-oriented marketing, facilities and services.

Operations
WCD's diverse, skilled staff of about 285 full- and part-time employees markets and maintains the facilities, books and services events, and helps promote and produce them. Visit Milwaukee solicits major convention and tradeshow bookings, and WCD books smaller meetings as well as sports, entertainment and consumer shows. Levy Restaurants, WCD's exclusive food service provider, books banquet, luncheons and receptions.

Most WCD employees are members of such bargaining units as the International Association of Theater & Stage Employees, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, the International Union of Operating Engineers, the Chicago Regional Council of Carpenters, the International Brotherhood of Painters & Allied Workers, and the Service Employees International Union.

A wide variety of private businesses and entrepreneurs ranging from event planners and decorators to florists and specialty food providers do business in WCD facilities, or deliver products and services to WCD clients.

Economic Impact
WCD exists to support Milwaukee's economy by attracting visitors and wealth to the community. In addition to the economic impact of visitor spending for rooms, meals, transportation and entertainment, WCD and its caterer, Levy Restaurants, help cultivate small and disadvantaged business development through "third-party vendor" contracts for specialty foods and other contracts for everything from construction services to printing. WCD's success in fueling local and regional prosperity is measurable in many ways, including the opening of some 1,500 new downtown hotel rooms since 1996. WCD has also helped stimulate community pride and economic development on the downtown, neighborhood and metropolitan levels

http://wcd.org/categories/12-wcdinformation/documents/1-about-us