Town Center Construction

[fsujax]

ok. maybe i exagerrated a little. Blanding is bad, I have really given up going to the SJTC, especially at lunch or saturdays. I dont even use my Costco membership because I dont want to deal with the mess that place has become.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

it already is worse than Blanding to me! and will get worse, until it starts to decline and ends up like Regency.

Having lived in both areas, I strongly disagree. Blanding was a nightmare in the four years I lived in OP and Argyle. For the Town Center, the only traffic nightmare to me if getting off on Gate Parkway from JTB. I just don't go that way. I will take 9A to TCP or St Johns Bluff to TCP. You can get in and out of the Town Center with ease using those two roads.

I agree cooperfield. Thats the easier way. Thats usually the way I take. But how long will it last? The way that area is growing it is going to be a nightmare in a few more years.

Exactly.  You used to be able to get around the OP traffic by taking either Collins or Wells, but that's not the case anymore.  Blanding used to be a pain in the ass, but absolutely horrendous during the holidays.  Well, it must be Christmas everyday there now, I absolutely hate having to make that trip.

[duvaldude08]

it already is worse than Blanding to me! and will get worse, until it starts to decline and ends up like Regency.

Having lived in both areas, I strongly disagree. Blanding was a nightmare in the four years I lived in OP and Argyle. For the Town Center, the only traffic nightmare to me if getting off on Gate Parkway from JTB. I just don't go that way. I will take 9A to TCP or St Johns Bluff to TCP. You can get in and out of the Town Center with ease using those two roads.

I agree cooperfield. Thats the easier way. Thats usually the way I take. But how long will it last? The way that area is growing it is going to be a nightmare in a few more years.

Exactly.  You used to be able to get around the OP traffic by taking either Collins or Wells, but that's not the case anymore.  Blanding used to be a pain in the ass, but absolutely horrendous during the holidays.  Well, it must be Christmas everyday there now, I absolutely hate having to make that trip.

Yeah I stay off Blanding on Morse. I HATE when I have to drive to OP for anything. As soon as you get to the 295 overpass traffic just stops. Blanding is not so bad until you get OP. I actually take Blanding to work some days. Then again, I do have to be to work until 10am, so there is no traffic anyways. Rush hour may be a different story

[I-10east]

Thanks yall for the very predictable "It should be in downtown, parking lots, Blanding Blvd-like, and suburban sprawl' remarks; It wouldn't be a SJTC thread without them. 

[fsquid]

I still go to the backside of the town center for Total Wine and the occasional trip to Dick's.  It isn't that bad on that side, I can usually get in and back out on 9A easily.   I certainly don't go to anything towards the Gate part.

December there is a nightmare, I will not try that again.

[Captain Zissou]

“In our view, it’s become more urban â€" if you look at the town center compared to Downtown, there’s as many jobs [in the area]and retail as Downtown,” Bove LLC President Gabe Bove said. “It’s become the new Jacksonville. It’s the fact that you can walk to retail and nightlife.”

Besides the main little strip, where else can you walk to and not have to traverse miles of parking lots and cars wizzing by on little roads?

I have believed for a while that residential infill is the best way for the TC to avoid going the way of Regency, but it will never replace DT. 

Density within the confines of the TC area is a good thing, but it will need to be better connected to the nearby areas and the region as a whole to succeed.  The turn lane from TC Parkway to Gate is already 3 lanes, it's not like they can make it any bigger.  There will need to be more options for ingress and egress, but I don't know how they will accomplish that.  I would love to see a streetcar run from Best Buy to Target and commuter rail down JTB, but I'm a dreamer.

I'm not going to touch the whole DT vs TC issue.  I will say that as long as you can pick up 5 acres with flexible zoning for $1.8 million on the Southside, downtown is going to have a hard time playing catch up.

[JUGrad]

Thanks yall for the very predictable "It should be in downtown, parking lots, Blanding Blvd-like, and suburban sprawl' remarks; It wouldn't be a SJTC thread without them. 

No kidding...  We get it, SJTC traffic sucks, growth at SJTC should be downtown, and there's no parking...  lets move on already...

[copperfiend]

Yeah I stay off Blanding on Morse. I HATE when I have to drive to OP for anything. As soon as you get to the 295 overpass traffic just stops. Blanding is not so bad until you get OP. I actually take Blanding to work some days. Then again, I do have to be to work until 10am, so there is no traffic anyways. Rush hour may be a different story

When I lived in Argyle, I worked nights at first, so it wasn't bad because I would leave for work around noon. But once I started working a 9-5, it would horrendous. It was so bad at the Blanding exit that sometimes I would get off on 103rd and drive down to Shindler to get to Chimney Lakes.

[JUGrad]

I will say that as long as you can pick up 5 acres with flexible zoning for $1.8 million on the Southside, downtown is going to have a hard time playing catch up.

+1

[I-10east]

lets move on already...

Exactly.

[cline]

The turn lane from TC Parkway to Gate is already 3 lanes, it's not like they can make it any bigger.  There will need to be more options for ingress and egress, but I don't know how they will accomplish that.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were eventually calls for a JTB EB flyover somehow heading into the SJTC or something crazy like that.

[fsujax]

Cline, dont give someone an idea! I am sure every taxpayer would be happy to flip the bill for that improvement. Just like the city paid for the traffic signal to be installed on Gate Pkwy for the Florida Blue campus.

[I-10east]

Although I'm definitely no philosopher by no means, I do try to be creative, and spontaneous as I can with my remarks; I guess that alot of yall would rather take the opposite approach and go to the 'boring bread and butter' even though this thread wasn't intended for it. That is like the equivalent of me rambling about how the Landing, and the Times Union Center for the Performing Arts should be out in the burbs. So yall keep being in denial, if anything that's 'unsustainable' right now in Jax, it's DT (not that I want it to be that way) it's just a fact. The SJTC is full and thriving, and I know that yall hate that.

[fieldafm]

Just like the city paid for the traffic signal to be installed on Gate Pkwy for the Florida Blue campus.

Blue Cross paid for the majority of it(60/40 split).  Considering they are in the top 5 in the city in so far as the number of employees on a heavy-auto centric campus... I actually think the traffic light was needed for safety purposes.  They were discussing PCT trolley service and decided on the red light instead based on an employee survey they received...

BTW guess who introduced the legislation for that public/private partnership?   Don Redman, the downtown councilman(who also received campaing money from BCBSF).... whose greatest hits for downtown also include the legalization of gator hunting in the city.  Way to represent your constituents Don!

So yall keep being in denial

Quite the contrary... you're in denial if you drink a developers kool-aid calling an auto-centric mall that lacks basic amenities such as proper sidewalks as being a 'walkable urban environment'.

Here are two 'lifestyle centers' in comparable suburban locations: 

Reston Town Center (Virgina-an exurb of DC quite comparable to the Southside)



Markets at Town Center (Jacksonville)



Notice any glaring differences?

SJTC is full and thriving, and I know that yall hate that.

Also quite the contrary.  The Southside should have better zoning in place that encourages more fiscally responsible development... zoning that encourages high density mixed use and discourages things like no sidewalks, large surface parking lots which strains things like stormwater runoff and three curb cuts fronting a busy intersection less than 20 feet from each other.

[I-10east]

^^^Yup, those taller buildings really make the difference in VA....

Just because the SJTC doesn't have block streets with sidewalks at close intervals doesn't mean it isn't thriving.