Jacksonville Landing Says Garage Not Enough

[fieldafm]

Here's a true story: for the past 4 years... I have spent New Years Eve at Koja Sushi.  For $60 you get a riverview table on the patio to watch the fireworks and all you can eat/drink(beer/wine).  You don't have to be down in the 'crowd' and get to enjoy a FANTASTIC deal for what you get.  Try going to Savannah and get a riverfront table to watch NYE fireworks.

How many dedicated parking spaces does the City of Savannah provide for its riverfront venues?

Please give me personal examples of commercial deals you have worked on in downtown Jacksonville with national chains where you didn't have these dedicated parking issues... 

[finehoe]

How many dedicated parking spaces does the City of Savannah provide for its riverfront venues?

Please give me personal examples of commercial deals you have worked on in downtown Jacksonville with national chains where you didn't have these dedicated parking issues...

In other words, Savannah hasn't constructed any, yet they have a crowded, active waterfront; while Jacksonville has more parking spaces than people and you can still get a front-row seat on NYE.

[cline]

Think about this for a second... what's the largest restaurant chain in America?  Applebees.  If they wanted to set up shop downtown, they are going to need somewhere around 150 dedicated parking spots to open up.  That's not me making an assumption, that's the business reality of the situation.

Right now, the Landing has 250 dedicated spots... for the entire building and ALL of their tenants.

So at max, if the City holds up its end of the deal and provides 300-375 spots, we can expect 2 additional Applebees style chains to move in.

[fieldafm]

How many dedicated parking spaces does the City of Savannah provide for its riverfront venues?

Please give me personal examples of commercial deals you have worked on in downtown Jacksonville with national chains where you didn't have these dedicated parking issues...

In other words, Savannah hasn't constructed any, yet they have a crowded, active waterfront; while Jacksonville has more parking spaces than people and you can still get a front-row seat on NYE.

Ummm, again no.  Not even close.  You have absolutely zero experience in this and I am done going back and forth with you... its totally unproductive.   

[thelakelander]

How many dedicated parking spaces does the City of Savannah provide for its riverfront venues?

Please give me personal examples of commercial deals you have worked on in downtown Jacksonville with national chains where you didn't have these dedicated parking issues...

In other words, Savannah hasn't constructed any, yet they have a crowded, active waterfront; while Jacksonville has more parking spaces than people and you can still get a front-row seat on NYE.

Savannah has several large parking garages.  They just happen to be better designed to fit into that landscape.



Also, Savannah benefits from something called.....foot traffic.  DT Jax, doesn't.

[finehoe]

You're simply not understanding what has been said. 

Not true.  I understand perfectly.  This is one more instance of the "silver bullet" approach that Jacksonville has used to such stunning effect for the last forty years.

"If we can just build this one thing then it will turn things around."

One doesn't need to be personally involved in commercial real estate deals to know when something isn't working, and even a blind person can see that the Landing isn't working.

Anyone who thinks that constructing or in some other way providng dedicated parking spaces, even if it succeeds in getting some national chains to open in the Landing, will turn the place around if those businesses are the same as one can find in any suburban strip mall, is bound to be disappointed.  Since hardly anyone lives there, the Landing must depend on luring people in from outside downtown, and I just don't think they will come if it is the same joints they can visit just up the street from where they live.

[thelakelander]

I don't think anyone is claiming that dedicated parking is the panacea to turning the Landing or downtown around.  Everyone will probably agree that downtown has a long list of items that need modification and resolution.  Dedicated parking at the Landing just happens to be one of many.

[MusicMan]

Remember how packed Riverside Arts Market was when they had the special event that featured all the fantastic local breweries? Why can't The Landing sponsor an event like that once a month? That would be an easy way to get folks down there. Throw in a free concert and you have the possibility for an awesome event.

Call it "Brews and Blues" at The Landing,  or something like that, it seems the possibilities are endless.....................

One thing is for sure, folks walk a block or two to get to RAM.

[thelakelander]

Without the Landing, the MJ pub crawl wouldn't be feasible.  You also can't forget about the number of artist they are allowing to set up shop for free in their space.  So, they are definitely into tactical urbanism and even go out of their way to subsidize it.

[duvaldude08]

I don't think anyone is claiming that dedicated parking is the panacea to turning the Landing or downtown around.  Everyone will probably agree that downtown has a long list of items that need modification and resolution.  Dedicated parking at the Landing just happens to be one of many.

Agreed. I think everyone has the wrong perception of the The Landing and even DT development for that matter. There is no one thing that is going to turn DT around. There are a list of things. And the Landing is one of the items on the list. The Fascade improvements that are going to happen, which include outdoor/sidewalk cafes, and the entertainment zone finally being expanded are two things on a longgggggggg list of items for DT. From a business perspective, the Landing needs adequte parking to lure in the big teanets. Point blank. No one is saying that will solve all of our problems, but it would be a step in the right direction.

[finehoe]

I don't think anyone is claiming that dedicated parking is the panacea to turning the Landing or downtown around.  Everyone will probably agree that downtown has a long list of items that need modification and resolution.  Dedicated parking at the Landing just happens to be one of many.

Well of course.  But it is being sold the way so many projects in Jacksonville have been, that if we do this one thing then all the pieces will start to fall into place, the dominoes will start to fall, and before you know it Jacksonville will be like Manhattan on the St. Johns.

[duvaldude08]

I don't think anyone is claiming that dedicated parking is the panacea to turning the Landing or downtown around.  Everyone will probably agree that downtown has a long list of items that need modification and resolution.  Dedicated parking at the Landing just happens to be one of many.

Well of course.  But it is being sold the way so many projects in Jacksonville have been, that if we do this one thing then all the pieces will start to fall into place, the dominoes will start to fall, and before you know it Jacksonville will be like Manhattan on the St. Johns.

Or maybe its a matter of perception. Because IMO they are not selling it as it will solve all problems or it will cause DT to fall into place. They are stating it will HELP solve the LANDING'S parking issues, etc.

[finehoe]

Or maybe its a matter of perception. Because IMO they are not selling it as it will solve all problems or it will cause DT to fall into place. They are stating it will HELP solve the LANDING'S parking issues, etc.

Except as many previous posters have noted, there are no parking issues at the Landing, as there are hundreds of spots available within a short stroll.  But they say that won't cut it, they need dedicated parking to attract national chains, which will make people drive past the same chain at the end of their block and come downtown, and the new visitors will stop the decline of the Landing, and the newly revitalized Landing will spur surrounding development, yada, yada, yada.  The pieces will fall into place and the dominoes will fall if only we go after this one thing.

I've seen the same pattern over and over in Jacksonville, with the football team, OPS, the convention center, the skyway, etc.  It's always about this missing ingredient that is holding everything back.

The truth of the matter is that if any national chains were actually interested in locating at the Landing they would expend a little energy and see that there is plenty of parking, that dedicated spots don't seem to impede Hooters, and take it from there.  Businesses aren't going to pass up an underserved market if they think they can make any money there.  Sleiman and certain of our local leaders and commercial real estate professionals may have convinced themselves that the only thing holding the place back is the lack of dedicated parking, and if there were no parking anywhere to be found around the Landing, they might be right.  But since we all know that isn't the case, I really don't see how it will change anything.

[thelakelander]

Except as many previous posters have noted, there are no parking issues at the Landing, as there are hundreds of spots available within a short stroll.  But they say that won't cut it, they need dedicated parking to attract national chains...

These are two totally different unrelated issues that many in this city continue to mix up.  Its why building a new garage is a complete waste of money in my opinion.  Instead, existing parking should be better organized and utilized in a manner where some of it could become "dedicated" parking that would resolve the retail requirment situation that comes with going after major chains in a community with low foot traffic.

The truth of the matter is that if any national chains were actually interested in locating at the Landing they would expend a little energy and see that there is plenty of parking, that dedicated spots don't seem to impede Hooters, and take it from there.

With a few years of designing commercial sites for chains and retail developers under my belt, what you describe is not how it works in Jacksonville or any other place with similar contextual/demographic characteristics.  Truth of the matter is, many of these places do have typical site selection requirements and if your specific site doesn't meet those requirements, they'll find another site in the same market that does.  In the case of downtown and the Landing, that could easily mean heading over to the Southside, Regency or River City Marketplace and still serving the same desired population.

[tufsu1]

ok...so national chains have dedicated parking requirements...The Landing has over 200 dedicated spaces in the adjacent surface lot...so isn't that enough to sign at least one national tenant?