Jacksonville Landing Says Garage Not Enough

[cityimrov]

I don't know who owns what in downtown but it feels like from all the stories I've heard - EVERYBODY IN DOWNTOWN WANTS TO LOOSE MONEY!  The city, the landing, the parking garage owners, the lot owners, the building owners - EVERYONE (except, I hope, the retailers)! 

It's like watching a bunch of kids yelling and fighting with each other, each one wants a piece of a pie - spending years upon years arguing which pie to the point when they finally agree to something, the pie is now spoiled and everyone looses.  The worst part is, all these guys used their own money to buy the pie! 

[thelakelander]

Parking or not, as long as Sleiman owns The Landing it will always be a loser. He is a slum lord, that is his earned reputation. As FineHoe pointed out, you coud have free curbside valet at The Landing and it would still suck. The problem at The Landing is Sleiman, not a lack of parking. This guy may have $$ but he has no clue about being a retail landlord. What other properties does he own that are succesful?

This is where I don't agree with the negative talk about Sleiman stuff.  He's got tons of successful properties across the city.  Two that come to mind are the Target shopping center at JTB & A1A and the stuff at Beach & Hodges.  Here is a link to Sleiman Enterprise's portfolio:

http://www.sleiman.com/LeasingInformation.aspx

The Landing has its problems and they revolve around downtown being more of a sucky product than Sleiman owning the Landing.  As for Starbucks, they also walked out on a downtown location with free rent.  If they wanted to be down here, they would.  Landing or not.

[Garden guy]

If he's such a great guy then why does he have such a nasty reputation?...because that's how he behaves...he behaves like an asshole so we see him as one...i've know many people who would love to go down to the landing and open a place but dealing with the jerk is too much...screw any money to be made if dealing with him is part of it...he should sell and retire...we'd all be happier...

[thelakelander]

This isn't about hanging out with the guy or inviting him over your house for dinner.  Sleiman Enterprises is a successful company and the only one that was willing to put up the $5 million to purchase the Landing (and he gets flack for this too).  Regency Centers, St. Joe, Gate, Ben Carter....the list goes on....didn't step up when Rouse finally gave up on downtown.  A dead Landing doesn't help his portfolio anymore than it helps downtown's image.  We all need to focus on doing the things needed to make our downtown environment more successful and that includes resolving the Landing situation and properly integrating it with the street.  Nevertheless, if someone can't open a shop at the Landing, send them elsewhere.  Downtown is full of available empty retail spaces.

[Garden guy]

This isn't about hanging out with the guy or inviting him over your house for dinner.  Sleiman Enterprises is a successful company and the only one that was willing to put up the $5 million to purchase the Landing (and he gets flack for this too).  Regency Centers, St. Joe, Gate, Ben Carter....the list goes on....didn't step up when Rouse finally gave up on downtown.  A dead Landing doesn't help his portfolio anymore than it helps downtown's image.  We all need to focus on doing the things needed to make our downtown environment more successful and that includes resolving the Landing situation and properly integrating it with the street.  Nevertheless, if someone can't open a shop at the Landing, send them elsewhere.  Downtown is full of available empty retail spaces.

If he's sooo successful in other areas please tell him to sell the landing and go over there. just because he's got someone elses money doesnt make him successful..just a good spender...also...being an asshole qualifies you as unwanted..personally i don't care how much money or property someones got...does'nt excuse bad behavior...

[thelakelander]

Unfortunately, if you can find a buyer, I'm sure anyone would be willing to entertain offers that would get them out of downtown.  Nevertheless, we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

[fieldafm]

This is no longer a constructive conversation.  It has become a bunch of children throwing tantrums.

Frankly, most of these responses are no better than the stuff you see over at Jacksonville.com.

we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

Well said.

[cline]

This is no longer a constructive conversation.  It has become a bunch of children throwing tantrums.

Frankly, most of these responses are no better than the stuff you see over at Jacksonville.com.

we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

Well said.

Ok.  It seems that Sleiman could budge a little and meet the City halfway and it could turn out to be a win-win.  Instead it is all or nothing.  What gives?  Is there a possiblity for a compromise because it doesn't really sound like it.

[Ocklawaha]

...being an asshole qualifies you as unwanted..personally i don't care how much money or property someones got...does'nt excuse bad behavior...

After reading yet another of your personal attacks here Garden Guy, does this mean your leaving metrojacksonville? Dictating business policy based on your feelings is a recipe for disaster.

OCKLAWAHA

[Tacachale]

Garden Guy, whatever you can say about Toney Sleiman, he's certainly not a poor developer or commercial real estate manager. If you doubt how successful his company is in Jacksonville, just go around town and see how many successful shopping centers, strip malls and other commercial properties display a Lebanese cedar tree flag or emblem - that's the Sleimans. It's very unlikely that the Landing is suffering any more under Sleiman than it would be under anyone else.

[JeffreyS]

This is no longer a constructive conversation.  It has become a bunch of children throwing tantrums.

Frankly, most of these responses are no better than the stuff you see over at Jacksonville.com.

we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

Well said.

Ok.  It seems that Sleiman could budge a little and meet the City halfway and it could turn out to be a win-win.  Instead it is all or nothing.  What gives?  Is there a possiblity for a compromise because it doesn't really sound like it.

Or perhaps this city might do better with the private investment/development if it showed it would live up to it's contractual obligations.

[cline]

This is no longer a constructive conversation.  It has become a bunch of children throwing tantrums.

Frankly, most of these responses are no better than the stuff you see over at Jacksonville.com.

we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

Well said.

Ok.  It seems that Sleiman could budge a little and meet the City halfway and it could turn out to be a win-win.  Instead it is all or nothing.  What gives?  Is there a possiblity for a compromise because it doesn't really sound like it.

Or perhaps this city might do better with the private investment/development if it showed it would live up to it's contractual obligations.

How did that work out for the City with the Shipyards?

[Tacachale]

This is no longer a constructive conversation.  It has become a bunch of children throwing tantrums.

Frankly, most of these responses are no better than the stuff you see over at Jacksonville.com.

we need to get over the personal politics and focus on the real issue, which is working together to reach the point of having a lively downtown.

Well said.

Ok.  It seems that Sleiman could budge a little and meet the City halfway and it could turn out to be a win-win.  Instead it is all or nothing.  What gives?  Is there a possiblity for a compromise because it doesn't really sound like it.

Or perhaps this city might do better with the private investment/development if it showed it would live up to it's contractual obligations.

How did that work out for the City with the Shipyards?

Well, obviously it only works when the private party lives up to its contractual obligations too. And the city should NOT let the private party milk them for more than what the actual obligations are.

[finehoe]

Garden Guy, whatever you can say about Toney Sleiman, he's certainly not a poor developer or commercial real estate manager. If you doubt how successful his company is in Jacksonville, just go around town and see how many successful shopping centers, strip malls and other commercial properties display a Lebanese cedar tree flag or emblem - that's the Sleimans. It's very unlikely that the Landing is suffering any more under Sleiman than it would be under anyone else.

I don't know Mr. Sleiman, nor do I know anything about what kind of reputation he may or may not have, but I think this may be something to think about.  A developer/commercial real estate manager might be quite successful in their niche, which in this case seems to be suburban strip mall-type developments, but if they try to impose what has 'always worked' for them in an enivironment that may not be what they're used to, their former success might not be duplicated.

I've argued before that the Landing should not be looked upon like a strip mall that happens to be downtown on the river, that it should be approached as an unique, one-of-kind entity.  Maybe it's true that the Landing would be suffering just as much under anyone else, but the possibility exists that if someone other than a suburban strip mall developer had purchased the Landing, who had a unique vision of what the property could be, then maybe we could look forward to the possilibility of something more than a Walgreens or an Office Depot.

[cline]

Garden Guy, whatever you can say about Toney Sleiman, he's certainly not a poor developer or commercial real estate manager. If you doubt how successful his company is in Jacksonville, just go around town and see how many successful shopping centers, strip malls and other commercial properties display a Lebanese cedar tree flag or emblem - that's the Sleimans. It's very unlikely that the Landing is suffering any more under Sleiman than it would be under anyone else.

I've argued before that the Landing should not be looked upon like a strip mall that happens to be downtown on the river, that it should be approached as an unique, one-of-kind entity.  Maybe it's true that the Landing would be suffering just as much under anyone else, but the possibility exists that if someone other than a suburban strip mall developer had purchased the Landing, who had a unique vision of what the property could be, then maybe we could look forward to the possilibility of something more than a Walgreens or an Office Depot.

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