Homeless and panhandlers

[hillary supporter]

It is good to have a family policy, beforehand, on how to deal with panhandlers.  Talk to the kids about this before you leave home.  Model good behavior.

I rarely give to a panhandler.  I usually put my hand up (talk to the hand style) and say a very firm NO.  I don't engage in any long narratives or defend my right to refuse.  Once or twice I have said "do not come any closer" in a very firm voice and that is usually it.

I do understand that panhandlers are not necessarily homeless and most homeless people do not beg.  That being said, if I were hungry, I would beg (I do it now, PLEASE Joe...make me one of those ice cream sundaes).  I certainly wouldn't go around hungry for long before I'd be crying like a little girl.

Get a panhandling policy worked out before you leave the house.  Let the kids know how you respond before the situation arises.  It will reduce your stress and theirs as well.  More importantly, the kids will know who is in charge.

Says it all!

[NotNow]

What about the victims of beatings?  What would you advice the Father who is struck and robbed in front of his family?  What about the women who have been raped in the parking garages?  Is that "just life in the 21st century"?

I realize that I am being somewhat argumentative, and I don't wish to be.  But the reality is that sometimes violence is used.  I agree with the methods proscribed...in public with other people (witnesses) around.  But once again, we are treating the symtoms.

[NotNow]

Are you claiming that no one has been raped or beaten downtown?  Who was it that beat your employee so severly a few years back? 

huh?  My point was quite clear. 

[hillary supporter]

What about the victims of beatings?  What would you advice the Father who is struck and robbed in front of his family?  What about the women who have been raped in the parking garages?  Is that "just life in the 21st century"?

I realize that I am being somewhat argumentative, and I don't wish to be.  But the reality is that sometimes violence is used.  I agree with the methods proscribed...in public with other people (witnesses) around.  But once again, we are treating the symtoms.

huh?

Was this family raped and beaten or were they panhandled?

Notnow, are  you claiming that only homeless panhandlers commit either rape or beatings?

Notnow, you'll have to prove Stevens point.... as i said in my post, its seems to be in the hands of local municipalities how to handle this situation. In NYC, Mayor Giuliani answered the city's call to arms in terms of the notorious squeegee washers tormenting metro drivers with they re effective scam. For the most part theres no physical violence, and the best way to avoid it concerning the individuals own action, i described what worked for me over the years.
The best answer we all would agree on would be here in Jax significant increase in police presence.
But that's not gonna happen anytime soon. Hence my refering to life in the 21st century.

[NotNow]

What do you want?  A list of case numbers and victims?  Suspects addresses? 

What worked in NYC was a marked increase in Police presence, along with strict enforcement of city ordinances.  I understand what you were saying, and qualified my questions as "argumentative".  My point is that training our children to accept this sorry state of affairs is treating the symptom, and is not, IMHO, an effective solution. 

[Jaxson]

What annoys me the most about today's panhandlers is that they are no longer passively sitting on the sidewalk and holding out a coffee cup for passers by to drop coins.  I often am minding my own business and walking through downtown and I hear someone getting my attention.  I stop thinking that this person wants to know what time it is or this person might have something otherwise important for me to hear.  Instead, he gives me a spiel about how he needs just one more quarter to get on the bus, his car has broken down and he needs a dollar for gas, or he needs some spare change for a sandwich.  The problem is that I do not wish to be guilted into handing over money to someone who has probably been there all day asking for other people's cash.  That said, I do not think that these annoying beggars are inherently prone to rape, rob or kill someone.  If downtown Jacksonville was somehow 'rape, robbery and murder central,' would there not be a bigger outcry?  We assume that these unwashed vagrants are lurking behind dumpsters and in dark alleys all over downtown to fulfill their dreams of being 21st century highwaymen. 
As for the real crime problem, we are partly to blame.  Speaking of highwaymen, we forget that these bandits did their dirty work in the forests where there were few people to witness their activities.  When we continue to resign ourselves to having an empty downtown, that is there the real crime becomes more common.  Barring a Kitty Genovese situation, crowds tend to deter crime.  And a busy, thriving downtown will go a long way toward really cleaning up things.

[urbaknight]

I hate it when they have the nerve to but in on me when I'm on my phone. One guy kept on yelling, sir, sir can you help me out. I say, I'm on the phone! Have some manners!

[RMHoward]

In the America that many of us grew up in, the American between the sixties and the early 90s, we didnt have the homeless/panhandler situation.

You can thank thirty years of so called 'conservatives', screwing up the city scape and making the city less manageable and more dangerous in order to avoid taxpayer funded charity.

Jeeze, three posts into this otherwise nice discussion and Mr. Know it all has to make a political statement.  What an idiot.  Too bad this guy runs rough shod over this forum.  Never seen such a venon filled hate machine whose every thought revolves around bad mouthing conservatives.  Give it a break.   
As far as homeless/panhandlers go, i have to say there is probably a reason they are in this predicament.  In order to be homeless, you have to have burned every bridge with family and friends for someone to not care enough about you to let you live on the streets.  I think very few of them are good honest folks who was the victim of bad luck or was just laid off.  Most have cheated, stolen from, lied to, etc to family and friends to be in this position.

[hillary supporter]

What do you want?  A list of case numbers and victims?  Suspects addresses? 

What worked in NYC was a marked increase in Police presence, along with strict enforcement of city ordinances.  I understand what you were saying, and qualified my questions as "argumentative".  My point is that training our children to accept this sorry state of affairs is treating the symptom, and is not, IMHO, an effective solution. 

We re in agreement and families will have to choose whether to accept the situation or choose other (legal) options. Like not be a part of it at all, not even venture to Downtown. Even so, from what im seeing specifically as the incident itself happened in a suburban neighborhood, children will eventually run into the situation and need their parents to deal with it.
Notnow, an ideal resolution i think you would agree with is that these individuals should be institutionalized again, as in the 70s. Thats just not gonna happen. Your solution of increased police presence and enforcement is most realistic, but involves $$$$$$ and the constituiants arent gonna have it. Today.

[NotNow]

Are you claiming that no one has been raped or beaten downtown?  Who was it that beat your employee so severly a few years back?  

huh?  My point was quite clear.  

Kenny, the fellow who beat up the 16 year old kid that worked at Boomtown was neither homeless nor was he panhandling, for the record.

Working with the cops, we pretty much cleaned up Hemming Park by making it impossible to deal drugs or create 'turf' there.

This guy is the kind of person that I have been posting about.   Have you seen his sheet?  He, and many like him, are the regulars at many of the "homeless" and "panhandlers" hang outs downtown.  They are not the majority, but they are there and will take advantage of opportunities.  Downtown is not a "very dangerous place".  But that is only because of high Police presence and the general lack of regular citizens.  People are too smart to risk themselves.  They just don't go downtown or only go at "safe" times like lunch.  They avoid the hang outs like Hemming Plaza and the East end of Beaver St.  Again, we are treating the symptoms and not the disease.  If we provide for the homeless, they have no reason to hang out in the streets.  Those that remain should conform to community standards of behavior.  Only then will citizens return to downtown. 

[NotNow]

Perhaps you could put on a class for patrol officers.  They could use your advice.  You could go on the road and advise other city police departments of your methods as well.  

Of course, I don't remember all of these victories over criminality that you claim, both on Main St. and downtown, but I would love to see your statistics.

[NotNow]

What do you want?  A list of case numbers and victims?  Suspects addresses? 

What worked in NYC was a marked increase in Police presence, along with strict enforcement of city ordinances.  I understand what you were saying, and qualified my questions as "argumentative".  My point is that training our children to accept this sorry state of affairs is treating the symptom, and is not, IMHO, an effective solution. 

We re in agreement and families will have to choose whether to accept the situation or choose other (legal) options. Like not be a part of it at all, not even venture to Downtown. Even so, from what im seeing specifically as the incident itself happened in a suburban neighborhood, children will eventually run into the situation and need their parents to deal with it.
Notnow, an ideal resolution i think you would agree with is that these individuals should be institutionalized again, as in the 70s. Thats just not gonna happen. Your solution of increased police presence and enforcement is most realistic, but involves $$$$$$ and the constituiants arent gonna have it. Today.

We generally agree.  And you are probably right about the $$$$.  But I feel that in the long term, we will spend less by increasing Police presence (temporarily) and reinstating the State Mental Health system.

[strider]

The way to "fix" the homeless issue downtown is not to have a larger police presence.  The only way is to have a larger people presence.  Until that happens, a larger police presence would cause more of an issue rather than fix anything.

Many panhandlers are simply doing their jobs.  Some are better at it than others, but it is often their job.  I do remember an article done years ago about the professional panhandlers in Washington DC.  Eat breakfast, kiss the wife who is off to a government job, get in your car and drive downtown, park it a fair distance from downtown so no one sees and panhandle for the next 8 or so hours. Then go home for a hot meal in your new condo.  Legal, and, at the time (about ten or so years ago I think), about 35K a year.  Not saying that is true for all panhandlers, but it does happen.

The moral is, you do not really know these people nor their issues or problems or what have you. Be leery and be smart.

Another thing is that for those who are not professional and who have real mental, physical or financial issues, downtown is often the only home they know.  You like to go home at the end of the day, well, they like to be home too.  Sending them off to Orange park (as an example) just makes it harder for them to get home, it doesn't prevent them from coming back home.  Facilities need to be close to where they are and want to be, not where the cool kids want them to be.

We, as a society, do not want to fund the help these people need, nor can we really afford to do it at this point.  Which is why it is better to come from the private sectors, like the churches who do not get government dollars to help them.

And, NotNow, please stop trying to interpret religious stuff, you aren't very good at it. At least on this thread.

[NotNow]

I would suspect not.  There is no Danny Brown.  Perhaps you mean Danny Perkins.  CEPTED?  Really?  Safety through environmental design?  

In all my years of working Springfield, I never saw you doing such a thing.  I have run into many, many people who go out at night in Springfield and downtown for a variety of reasons, but not you.  I am sure that I just missed you.  

Perhaps if you had ever put your a$$ on the line (I mean really), you could speak with some credibility on shootings.

[NotNow]

The way to "fix" the homeless issue downtown is not to have a larger police presence.  The only way is to have a larger people presence.  Until that happens, a larger police presence would cause more of an issue rather than fix anything.

Many panhandlers are simply doing their jobs.  Some are better at it than others, but it is often their job.  I do remember an article done years ago about the professional panhandlers in Washington DC.  Eat breakfast, kiss the wife who is off to a government job, get in your car and drive downtown, park it a fair distance from downtown so no one sees and panhandle for the next 8 or so hours. Then go home for a hot meal in your new condo.  Legal, and, at the time (about ten or so years ago I think), about 35K a year.  Not saying that is true for all panhandlers, but it does happen.

The moral is, you do not really know these people nor their issues or problems or what have you. Be leery and be smart.

Another thing is that for those who are not professional and who have real mental, physical or financial issues, downtown is often the only home they know.  You like to go home at the end of the day, well, they like to be home too.  Sending them off to Orange park (as an example) just makes it harder for them to get home, it doesn't prevent them from coming back home.  Facilities need to be close to where they are and want to be, not where the cool kids want them to be.

We, as a society, do not want to fund the help these people need, nor can we really afford to do it at this point.  Which is why it is better to come from the private sectors, like the churches who do not get government dollars to help them.

And, NotNow, please stop trying to interpret religious stuff, you aren't very good at it. At least on this thread.

I disagree with your philosophy about the homeless and panhandlers.  Thanks for your opinion on religion, it has exactly the same standing as my opinion or anyone elses.  I'll stand by my religious training and my statements anytime.  

What makes you an authority on "religious stuff"?