Homeless and panhandlers

[Galois]

Pseudo-rant. About my experience with Jacksonville Panhandlers. Please discuss.


This afternoon I was eating lunch with an old friend in Paneras in Roosevelt Square.  We are talking about life and a random guy comes up to our booth. He asks to shake my hand. I am a little startled, and I am thinking do I know you? I am also a little bit of a germophobe so I am hesitating to shake this strangers hand in the middle of my meal. Handshakes are special to me. I don’t just shake anyone’s hand, not trying to sound snooty. Let me explain, there needs to be some reason as to why I am shaking your hand. For example maybe we are friends, we are in the same professional field, we see eye to eye on something, you did me a favor, you are running for office. If I shook everyone’s hand my the quality and trust I put into my handshake would diminish.  I decided not to shake his hand. Next, I ask him do I know you? I look at my friend she seems a bit startled. He says, “no, I am homeless give me some money to eat.” I look at him in the eyes and I say something along the lines of no…

I am all for helping the homeless and the needy but there are places where aggressive panhandlng (I considered this interaction with the homeless man in Paneras to be some form of psycho-aggression, as the homeless man was trying to “connect” with me, kind of like a salesman has little tricks to ensnare you into his scheme to buy his product or give him money ) is not ok. In retrospect I should have offered to buy the guy a meal, but his approach in walking up to our booth startled me and was rude. But why us? I guess he may have saw me and my friend, and tagged us as young and vulnerable. The opposite of us sat a table with 2 muscular caucasian guys (think athletic types) and one girl. The homeless guy was black so maybe he felt intimated by them. I can imagine if I was with my family or a professional acquaintance. There is this saying that judge a man how he treats the people he doesn’t know, or the poorest person… I like that statement but after today’s experience I see where the ethics of judgement can become clouded. What if this poor man has been rude to the friend in question before? After he had left the table I had to process what had happened based on my other experiences here in Jacksonville with the homeless.

A few days before I was at the bar with my friends and a homeless guy walks in. I guess he is trying to buy some alcohol for the night. A few seconds later I see the bar tender walking the homeless guy out of the bar. This interaction between public space and the homeless seem doesn’t to happen much where I go to school. The homeless stay outside and if they do come inside an establishment they know to stay in the corner out of patron’s way. They know that they need to look productive and to blend in. They know that the workers of an establishment can identify with their plight and sometimes will even give them free food. They know that they need to smell ok.  The most important thing the homeless know, is to respect the patrons and the workers who are there. It seems as if in Jacksonville there has been a collapse between the patronic space (a space where people are paying for goods and services) and public space (a place where a majority of people don’t necessarily have to pay for goods or services, such as a park). I think the bar tender knew that if he let the homeless man buy beer it would look bad to his restaurant and that the homeless guy would modus ponens- think that its ok in the future to come and buy more beer perhaps even bringing his cronies. I always think about the homeless and patronic space.

I like to believe that sometimes “homeless people” are just really rich people in disguise. These “homeless people” are just seeing how empathetically shitty and competitive the human race has become, and there some irony in that. Maybe these “homeless people” are just looking for good people… by seeing how far they can step on their toes and still receive a positive repsonse. I also like to think that “homeless people” are from the future, they can blend in easiest because no one cares. I do.

I remember a few years I ago I had a same variant of this issue in Wendys in Riverside. I was standing in line and some random guy was trying to sell me cologne. Right in front of the manager and cashiers. I kept telling him no and the guy kept trying to sell me cologne. I get it, you’re trying to make a buck, but you are making me uncomfortable. And sorry I don’t want your cologne. So it got to point where the guy left me alone and I am finally at the register about to pay for my meal. I feel my pockets for my wallet and it isn’t there. I look at the guy and I ask him if he has taken my wallet he says no. I start to question him and I then call the cops because I am getting angry at the whole stupidity of the situation. Unfortunately, it dawns on me that my wallet is probably in my car… So I go out into my car and find it. My god what a shitty situation to be in! I just accused this guy of stealing… but is it really my fault to have inductively come to that conclusion? I guess if I wasn’t so irritated it would have made more sense that if he had taken my wallet he would have left Wendys and went on his shopping spree… Later, I gave him ten dollars because I felt bad for accusing him. I vowed never to go back to that Wendys. Who knows what someone would try to sell me next, it definitely wouldn’t be a hamburger perhaps lotion? I also realized the extent that managers cared about their customers. I know its a fast food place, but you have to protect your customers and make sure they are having a good experience. Being a fast food place gives you no excuse to let anyone come and do anything to customers just because they are eating there. If I am eating your establishment I expect the place to be clean and free of irritation, if you can’t guarantee these things then you should not have an eat in section. You are slowing down the advancement of the human race because everyone will think its “ok” to get shitty service and experience, but its not. People deserve the best, because they are people. If people can see value in experience and its relation to the advancement of the human race (an advancement can be both cultural and productive) then society is progressing.

I feel bad for the homeless and the needy in Jacksonville and throughout, but for me to respect you and your experience as a person, you need to first treat me like a person. Maybe I don’t want to buy your cologne or feel awkward in front of my friends.  If I don’t want to give you my last two dollars (I am a poor college student) then please respect that. Don’t look “deep” into my eyes as if my eyes are some Bank of America ATM. If I am eating my meal and mouth is full, please don’t come and ask me for money. Wait until I am done eating or ask for the straps when I leave the restaurant. There are places for sympathy.

[Ernest Street]

Panhandling is an Honest annoyance. it is better than stealing,
I just shake my head when these people ask me if I have spare change.

There is no guilt denying these folks money.
My 81 year old Mother works with the Homeless and actually heard some homeless traveler admit he was given a bus pass to Florida from a Northern city he wouldn't name...just to get the hell out of Philly during the Christmas Celebrations..
He knew about our Meager Homeless food situation but came down anyway to enjoy our weather and free benefits...
Think about it. we are a Northern garbage dump...even as they are Rotting and festering, they send their "Visual Blight" to us when it's convenient.

[ChriswUfGator]

The "homeless" here aren't generally homeless, a big chunk of them are just con men / panhandlers.

I think people need to understand the difference. The con men are generally the ones brazen enough to accost you at your table inside a restaurant without any regard for your privacy. These guys literally do view you and everyone else as an ATM machine with legs. They're the same ones who will cuss you out if you don't take 20 minutes to listen to their scripted sob story or give them money. Sorry to sound jaded but it just gets old after awhile. The 456,234th time you have some rude person demanding your time and money at the worst possible moment, you just kind of have enough of it.

The solution to this problem isn't on an individual level, it's a systemic fix that's needed...

[Dog Walker]

Stephen, You are being blinded by retrospective nostalgia.  Hobos, tramps, bums have always been with us.  They are just more visible now since laws against "vagrancy" have been found to be unconstitutional.  They also have more of a support system in place so that a life on the streets is possible.

Used to be that they were moved on from city to city and ended up in the "work camps" or the county "P" farm.  Now they are in the shelters.

Also used to be that they could stay in the SRO hotels (single resident only) aka "flop houses" so they weren't "homeless" and could exist on a few dollars a day make by panhandling or casual labor.

You aren't old enough to remember the Train Man who roamed downtown in the 40's and '50's.  One of the mentally disturbed homeless (except he wasn't homeless).  He would shuffle along the streets pulling a string of cardboard boxes, saying, "Whoo Woo", and making steam noises.  He would stop people and ask for "fares" and shuffle on.  At night he carried a flashlight and his wife would finally come along with a red lantern and lead him home.

Maybe you can remember John, the Hemming Park street preacher, who would shout the gospel, wave his bible and ask people for "gifts to god".  He would periodically begin to eat his bible in his frenzy and the cops would pick him up and Baker Act him for a few weeks.

[Dog Walker]

The clearing out of the mental hospitals was one of the big mistakes of the '70's.  Another was the closing of orphanages in favor of foster care.  Yes, some of them were snake pits, but it would have been better to reform them than to close them.

I certainly don't know how to solve the problem, but it is obvious even to me that what we are doing now isn't working.

[Galois]

Becareful. I am partially interested in "solving the problem." I do not see panhandling and the homeless as a problem, just the by products of our capitalistic mode of production. I do however have a problem when my privacy is invaded and my own productivity as a citizen is challenged.

[peestandingup]

The guy that hit you up wasn't homeless & is just a con guy who hangs around that area. If it's the same one I'm thinking of, he's a well spoken semi groomed black man, middle aged & average build. That him??

I've seen him do the same thing at that same Panera on several occasions. Sometimes he gets money, sometimes people order him food. I told him to piss off so he doesn't bother me. Why be so cold? Because I learned enough from living in DC how to separate the truly down & out homeless from the jokers who have their prepared spiel memorized to sucker whatever they can from you.

Treat them like the door to door salespeople who ring your doorbell off when you're at home trying to have a meal while the baby is napping. Slam the door in their rude face & tell them to take it somewhere else.

[brainstormer]

On the subject of rude panhandlers/homeless.  I had to go downtown to Chamblins today and parked in front of the Carling.  As I was getting out of my car I witnessed a disgraceful act.  A young family of four (mom, dad, two small kids probably 6 and 3) was crossing Adams Street at Laura.  A very unkept man approached them from the other side of the street and obviously asked them for money.  I could see the dad shaking his head no but couldn't hear what he was saying.  As he encouraged his family to quickly keep walking, the panhandler started gesturing and yelling at them.  As the family walked away, the dad picked up the youngest.  By this time I could hear what the panhandler was yelling.  He was telling them to go back to where they came from and that they would regret it. 
Small situations like this are what give downtown such a bad reputation.  What is the value in spending millions on Laura Street when the city refuses to address the homeless, panhandlers, public intoxication, etc.  While the homeless went relatively "unseen" during Jazz Fest, today they were easily seen.  What can we do to address public intoxication?  How can we prevent young families with children from having an unpleasant experience such as the one I witnessed today?  It is a conversation that everyone with power refuses to have.

[Dog Walker]

++++1!  That family will NEVER come back downtown.  And they will repeat the story to all of their friends and family. 

I haven't gone to the Landing for years because of one ugly experience with the young thugs who used to hang around the streets leading to the entrance.

Why should I bother?  There are lots and lots of other places I can go and spend my time and money.

This whole issue MUST be dealt with before anything else can work to rejuvenate downtown.  Mock Jerry Moran all you want, but he has to deal with it everyday.

[acme54321]

Yep there seemed to be more than normal when I went down there friday.

[sheclown]

Public intox is a tough one.  The same set of rules must apply to those in a suit as to those in a ripped T shirt.  The city has gotten in trouble over this before.

Big cities have panhandlers. 

The problem with downtown is not the panhandlers, necessarily, as much as the fact that there are fewer people to pan handle from walking around.  Odds are much greater that you are going to get hit on in Jax than anywhere else.

It is a percentage issue. 

Enact policies which encourage business downtown and, like the jazz fest, the social problem will be less noticable.

[Miss Fixit]

We were at Chamblin's for lunch yesterday (an experience I highly recommend - great food, prices and service) with our 7 and 13 year old kids and then walked to a program at the Main Library.  It was a great day, and I remember saying that I was happy to see how many people were dining at Chamblin's on a Saturday.

We did pass a few unkempt apparently homeless folks outside, but no one approached us or behaved in a way that was frightening.  The only really unpleasant thing about the afternoon was the smell of some of the people hanging out in the library (but I'll save my recommendations about soap, deodorant and baths for our street people for another day).

I agree that the experience of the family described above was unacceptable.  I hope that they, like my family, understand that there are mentally ill and substance abusing people everywhere.

We ALL would feel safer if there were more people shopping and dining downtown and if there were more police officers ON FOOT patrolling the area.  I personally plan to start spending more time downtown on the weekends - the main library really has some great programs scheduled this summer.  If everyone else who cares about downtown would do the same, our sheer numbers would make the area safer and more comfortable for everyone.

[hillary supporter]

Becareful. I am partially interested in "solving the problem." I do not see panhandling and the homeless as a problem, just the by products of our capitalistic mode of production. I do however have a problem when my privacy is invaded and my own productivity as a citizen is challenged.

This individual has a right to do what he did to you, a consequence of legal rulings in the 70s to remedy the abuses in mental hospitals to these perfectly sane people. Its up to local municipalities to figure out how to eliminate this very serious problem facing all urban areas. Its been around since the beginning of civilization, with several ethnic groups (Gypsies) actually embracing it as a way of life. In totalitarian, socialist counties, these people, primarily because they refused to work, were deemed sick and sent to mental hospitals. But that failed.
It pretty much comes down to something you as an individual will have to handle yourself.
PeestandingUp is one method, for me i exert myself in a less aggressive manner, because you just dont know the mental state of this person.
In particular, you must respect the persons right. The best way to converse with him (which you dont want to do) is dont say "you". Simply say i dont have anything, i cant help you, i understand your situation, but my feeling is, etc. Then cut your conversation to a broken record ) i cant help you, over and over. If the person becomes violent ( which is doubtful), then you will have to take action for your personal protection.
This is just a part of life in the 21st century.

[sheclown]

It is good to have a family policy, beforehand, on how to deal with panhandlers.  Talk to the kids about this before you leave home.  Model good behavior.

I rarely give to a panhandler.  I usually put my hand up (talk to the hand style) and say a very firm NO.  I don't engage in any long narratives or defend my right to refuse.  Once or twice I have said "do not come any closer" in a very firm voice and that is usually it.

I do understand that panhandlers are not necessarily homeless and most homeless people do not beg.  That being said, if I were hungry, I would beg (I do it now, PLEASE Joe...make me one of those ice cream sundaes).  I certainly wouldn't go around hungry for long before I'd be crying like a little girl.

Get a panhandling policy worked out before you leave the house.  Let the kids know how you respond before the situation arises.  It will reduce your stress and theirs as well.  More importantly, the kids will know who is in charge.

[sheclown]

Explain to the kids that while you understand that these people may be hungry, you don't feel it is appropriate for you to give them money, but rather you contribute to the needs of the poor by giving at church or to a charity and that charity feeds them. 

Explain to them that the main reason you don't hand out money to strangers is much the same way you don't allow them to talk to strangers.  It is not safe and that most people will not harm them or you, it is not a wise thing to do.

Tell them that many people are mentally ill and have a tough time.  Let them know that they have a medical condition, but that they may be too sick to be treated for it.

Doing these things with your kids prepares them to live in this world.