STREETCAR NOW JACKSONVILLE!

[thelakelander]

Here is the TPO's Long Range Transportation Plan's urban core mass transit projects:



Green "L" = Commuter Rail (this will most likely be the second project for Riverside's mobility zone in the mobility plan, after the completion of the streetcar)

Blue = BRT - This isn't in the mobility plan but JTA is hell bent on doing it anyway.  You'll probably see something resembling BRT down Roosevelt by the end of this decade.

Orange "V" & "U" = Streetcar - This is the mobility plan's priority project for the mobility zone that Riverside falls in.  

[Jimmy]

That map with your legend is helpful, Lake.

[thelakelander]

Looking at the map, it then makes sense to plan to modify regular bus routes to run down perpendicular corridors to the BRT, streetcar and commuter rail corridors.  It also makes since to implement the bike network in a similar fashion.  Once you do that, the entire neighborhood and other surrounding it will have pretty great mass transit connectivity, no matter what individual destination a specific person has.

[thelakelander]

Now looking at it, mobility zone 7 which is the area bounded by I-10/I-95 (North), I-295 (west/south) and the river (east) only has three road/transit projects in the mobility plan.  They are (ranked by priority):

1. Streetcar - DT to King Street - $50 million

2. Commuter Rail Southwest - DT to I-295 - $29.25 million (local matching grant)

3. Harlow Boulevard - 2 to 3 lane road widening from Lane Ave to 103rd St - $1.75 million

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Now I know I'm counting my chickens way before they're hatched, but I'm looking forward to a future phase of the Riverside streetcar: a connection from the first phase on Oak (or Riverside or Park as the case may be) running from Park St down King towards the King St. Brewery District, turning back towards 5 Pts down College or Post St (surely one of these is wide enough?), hitting the Stockton Street/John Gorrie School area, then running through the pastoral Riverside Park (ala New Orleans) to the revitalized Annie Lytle Transitorium.

Streetcar Now!

[strider]

I do have to ask, if the primary reason any city does street car is the new development it brings to the area, why Riverside first?  It just seems that if the city as a whole wants the best bang (development) for the buck (OK, millions) then it should go to the lesser developed and less used areas first, not last.

The area gets new development while the street car line is being built, the existing area of Riverside continues to grow with the existing transportation available.  In fact, it seems the city wins bigger because while the street car to Riverside is under construction, the commercial side of things typically suffers.  Going to that unused area first means no one really suffers during construction so no loss. In today's economy, Riverside having more opportunity to grow before the Street car may mean less loss during the eventually construction.

So, what am I missing here?

[JeffreyS]

I think it is a balancing act current usefulness and future benefits.

[Fallen Buckeye]

I don't like the idea of widening Harlow. It only gets moderate traffic, and it's mostly residential.

Definitely in favor of going down Oak St for reasons already mentioned (mainly reasonably close access to both Park and Riverside). Plus, if you have the spur that turns Northwest at King a lot of the businesses and residents you would to cater to  by having it go down Park are pretty close. It might be cool in a future phase to create lollipop loop by bringing it further up King to Post then head back toward Stockton and then  back around to rejoin the Phase 1 line at Oak St. That would tie 3 commercial districts together and all the residents in between. (Oops just saw that L.P. Hovercraft had the same idea. Great minds and all. lol)

[thelakelander]

The Harlow project is really a small two block bottleneck between the urbanized three lane "already completed" residential section and the signalized intersection at 103rd Street.  Its nothing major.

[thelakelander]

I do have to ask, if the primary reason any city does street car is the new development it brings to the area, why Riverside first?  It just seems that if the city as a whole wants the best bang (development) for the buck (OK, millions) then it should go to the lesser developed and less used areas first, not last.

There are several goals.  They include providing viable forms of alternative transportation, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, integrating with neighborhood visioning plans, taking cars off existing streets, encouraging sustainable development, reducing vehicle miles traveled, etc.  From an economic development standpoint, I think we're overlooking the fact that the majority of this project is not in Riverside.  Its actually in Brooklyn and LaVilla.  I think we can all agree that both of these places need an economic shot in the arm.

[cline]

I do have to ask, if the primary reason any city does street car is the new development it brings to the area, why Riverside first?  It just seems that if the city as a whole wants the best bang (development) for the buck (OK, millions) then it should go to the lesser developed and less used areas first, not last.

In addition to what Lake said I will add that the first leg of any new mode of transit (Streetcar, Commuter rail, etc.) here in Jacksonville MUST be at least a moderate success in terms of ridership.  Because of the fact that Rside is already successful on many fronts (both residential and commercial), I feel that it is the best candidate for the first new Streetcar line and can attract the necessary ridership that will allow the system to expand into places like Springfield.  There are already enough naysayers in this town when it comes to mass transit.  The last thing we need is for those same naysayers to be able to point to the Streetcar and call it another Skyway.  Any new phase would be doomed.  It is imperative the first phase is a success.

[Ocklawaha]

Think in terms of a barbell, on each end you have the heavy weights, IE: A stable residential area in Riverside and a stable spread of offices in the CBD. Between them you have 2 urban deserts, La Villa and Brooklyn.  Now if we built just where development was needed most, we'd end up going from desert to desert without connecting to those vital parts that act as collectors and distributors of passenger traffic. In other words we'd be doing the Skyway Jig all over again.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Here is a better map, I'm working on this with the city GIS specialist. (I know it's a tad light, my computers are all frizzed out and I don't have a clue how to put this mess back together...any volunteers?) The legend we are working on says:

RED LINES = Historic Jacksonville Traction Company Routes
TEAL LINES = Proposed contemporary reconstruction with new routes
Purple = Historic lines AND reconstruction route

OCKLAWAHA

[Fallen Buckeye]

I agree the Harlow thing isn't really a big deal. I just don't see the point of doing it and sending a drove faster cars through a neighborhood. Are they trying to divert some traffic away from 103rd or something? Seems like that $1.75 million could be put to better use. No biggie though.

[thelakelander]

It's projected to become a bottleneck without some sort of improvement and the project will also improve bike and ped network connectivity in Cedar Hills. However, I agree that in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't rank very high on my personal list.