STREETCAR NOW JACKSONVILLE!

[Ocklawaha]

Amazing photo illustrating how a trolley can roll through a park without upsetting the picnic baskets... HINT-You just bury the track and landscape it like this new line in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Gee I wonder where they got THAT idea?


Jacksonville circa 1912. "THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STREETCAR LINE IN THE WORLD".

While it would be super to have the streetcar on a long stretch of this type of trackage, it should be remembered that all one has to do to avoid the park is turn a corner.


OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

Isn't the JTA Streetcar study already completed?

[cline]

At a minimum, there would have to be some sort of public involvement for the route selections.  While I would venture to guess there is pretty good public support for a streetcar through the neighborhood, I would bet that there are plenty of people that live alongs some of those streets that would oppose it.

[ChriswUfGator]

ok...so let's hypothesize...

Supopose the system got 4000 riders per day with 10-20 minute headways running from 7a - 11p

Should it be built?  
How much would the fare need to be to be operationally functional?  
Is there a need for an endowment?  
How long would that endowment last to cover operations cost (beyond farebox recovery?  
Would hours need to be cut or headways made longer?

Now, what if the system only got 1000 riders a day using the same assunmptions.

Who cares, I want it built regardless.

The $160mm available should be enough to build it and set aside a fund to cover all operating costs for a lengthy period, regardless of whether it gets even 1 rider or not. So just do it already. The more money wasted on consultants who charge the city a million dollars to copy and paste material from MetroJacksonville (literally) the less will be available to actually fund the streetcar. I'm sick of half of every project budget going to high-paid consultants to generate studies that take 2 years to come up with the conclusion that was already obvious. It's generally a complete waste. Just build it, ASAP.

[JeffreyS]

Jacksonville circa 1912. "THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STREETCAR LINE IN THE WORLD".

Ok I guess we have our first Promo image.

[ChriswUfGator]

Isn't the JTA Streetcar study already completed?

Of course it is, since all they did was literally rip off a bunch of posts and articles from this website, combine it with Ocklawaha's renderings and p-chops, and then present it as their own work to COJ along with a bill for half a million dollars. I'm not kidding, by the way.

[cline]

Just build it, ASAP

Unfortunately we could be  waiting a while until we start collecting mobility fees.  We need some sort of development ASAP to move this thing along.

[ChriswUfGator]

At a minimum, there would have to be some sort of public involvement for the route selections.  While I would venture to guess there is pretty good public support for a streetcar through the neighborhood, I would bet that there are plenty of people that live alongs some of those streets that would oppose it.

I agree, hold a public input session to figure out where most people want the route, and go from there.

[tufsu1]

Isn't the JTA Streetcar study already completed?

All it was an initial feasibility study...similar to the one they finished for commuter rail...before you go to design you need to do some level of "environmental" study...and you'll need ridership forecasts to figure out things like many cars need to be purchased or where station platforms might be needed and how big they should be.

[JeffreyS]

We already have the JTA study, Metropolitan Planning Organization input, TPO input and an approved mobility plan. I am not anti study but this thing is ready to go.

[JeffreyS]

If every 15 min isn't enough go to 7 if it is too much go to 20 and so on  and so forth.

[tufsu1]

The $160mm available should be enough to build it and set aside a fund to cover all operating costs for a lengthy period, regardless of whether it gets even 1 rider or not.

umm...you do know there is no $160mm right?

Fact is the mobility plan estimates costs for projects between now and 2030...I believe the initial streetcar line is something like $50 million....and that was for construction, not operations.

BUT....none of that money exists....it requires new development to come in, get permitted, and pay their fee first....which will likely take many years.

And no, the money can not be bonded up front and paid back later with mobility fee collections.

[tufsu1]

We already have the JTA study, Metropolitan Planning Organization input, TPO input and an approved mobility plan. I am not anti study but this thing is ready to go.

I suggest folks read the JTA initial study...then decide for yourself if we're "ready for construction"

http://www.jtafla.com/pdf/Streetcars/finalReport-Streetcar2-092608.pdf

[iMarvin]

Park St. because it has a direct connection to the JRTC, goes to 5 points and can turn down King (Park & King) to go to St. Vincent's. Plus, it won't get in the way or duplicate the route a skyway extension would serve (Riverside Ave.)

I thimk Park St. might be too narrow in Riverside to extend the streetcar past the park in 5 points. There are areas where the ROW can't be expanded much, Riverside Ave is much wider. I want to see the streetcar through to Herschel Street, somewhere in the area of the Publix on 17, to give the neighborhood full coverage. That will likely be impossible on Park.

I think the farthest a streetcar would go in the neighborhood is the Shoppes of Avondale. Now about Park St, if the skyway wasn't already on Riverside, I would agree, but it only makes sense to to extend the skyway down Riverside. I don't like Oak St because it's not a commercial street and IMO wouldn't get as many riders whereas Park is a more important street and hits more destinations.

[JeffreyS]

I am a little suprised and happy that no one has voted to start someplace else.  I thought the Landing going out or Shands going the other way would get some votes.  I like Oak it is wide and can serve Park and Riverside and go through 5 points without gumming up the works.