The Park View Pavilion Coming Soon

[thelakelander]

well, if you enjoy being stalked in the lot and while shopping in the aisles and asked repeatedly for money, then being cursed for not giving it...nothing I guess. If you enjoy purchasing items that are already opened when you get home, standing in line while customers have individual items taking off trying to get to the point they have enough money for, if you do not mind buying those same items that have been sitting waiting to go back to the cooler, and if you do not mind the trash strewn on the sidewalks and crows leading away from the store....nothing I guess.

Okay, so the issue isn't the actual building structure or company operating the business.  Your issue is with some of the customers and maintainance of public ROW?

We need a Trader Joe or Whole Food Market here more often.

If Starbucks can't keep it going, there's no way this project or even downtown, will be seeing a Trader Joes or Whole Foods open anytime soon.The demographics simply aren't there to support them in those specific locations.  Nevertheless, a Walgreens or CVS helping to anchor some smaller specialty retail on this corner is a huge plus for Springfield and downtown.  Especially in this economy.

[CityLife]

We need a Trader Joe or Whole Food Market here more often. Publix and Winn-Dixie has dominantly inflated the local market to the point that it is much expensive here as it is in California or New York where the living standards are higher and cost more than here in Jacksonville.

-Josh

I know first hand that a powerful entity is working to bring a viable competitor to Jacksonville/Florida to combat Publix.

It isn't Trader Joe's though.

[fsujax]

Must be Kroger!

[CityLife]

We need a Trader Joe or Whole Food Market here more often.

If Starbucks can't keep it going, there's no way this project or even downtown, will be seeing a Trader Joes or Whole Foods open anytime soon.The demographics simply aren't there to support them in those specific locations.  Nevertheless, a Walgreens or CVS helping to anchor some smaller specialty retail on this corner is a huge plus for Springfield and downtown.  Especially in this economy.
[/quote]

Agreed. Unfortunately one of the real estate agents working on the property (I don't think he is anymore) told a few people that he had a rep from Trader Joe's coming to look at the site and got people excited. However, another person in the commercial real estate field that I trust told me that he had been trying to get Trader Joe's people to Jacksonville for sometime and that this agent was using "Trader Joe's" as a way to excite everyone and entice other investors/businesses.

A Whole Foods or Trader Joe's would likely go in San Marco or The Southbank before DT. That is the only spot in the core where you might be able to get the demographics to work in a 5 or 10 mile radius.

[acme54321]

We need a Trader Joe or Whole Food Market here more often. Publix and Winn-Dixie has dominantly inflated the local market to the point that it is much expensive here as it is in California or New York where the living standards are higher and cost more than here in Jacksonville.

-Josh

I know first hand that a powerful entity is working to bring a viable competitor to Jacksonville/Florida to combat Publix.

It isn't Trader Joe's though.

No sane person would ever come to Florida and even attempt to trump the mighty Publix.  Impossible.

[JeffreyS]

How about a CVS, Dunkin Donuts and a Local Restaurant in a Courtyard Marriott on the site.

[CityLife]

The demographics are there, City Life.

The problem is the toxic bubble of policies in Downtown.

Like Springfield, the reason the commercial district failed to develop had a lot more to do with policy and politics than it did with demographics.

The demographics to support a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's are in place in DT?

[fsujax]

I am sure they would look at their market area as more than 32202. I think Stephen has a good point.

[CityLife]

I am sure they would look at their market area as more than 32202. I think Stephen has a good point.

When retailers and grocers look at locations, they put a 5 and 10 mile radius around the location and look at the demographics inside.

Retailers like Trader Joe's and Whole Food's are looking for upper middle class incomes and up for their demographics. From their standpoint (not mine) it makes no sense to open a location in DT, because all of the demographics north of DT (save portions of Springfield) are not even close to what they are looking for.

If they were to put their little bubble in San Marco or the Southbank they would hit, San Marco, St. Nicholas, Miramar, Epping Forest, San Jose, Riverside, Avondale, parts of Ortega, DT, and Springfield.

[CityLife]

Must be Kroger!

Not Kroger, an up and comer

[thelakelander]

The demographics are there, City Life.

The problem is the toxic bubble of policies in Downtown.

Like Springfield, the reason the commercial district failed to develop had a lot more to do with policy and politics than it did with demographics.

^They aren't, at least in the case of Publix (I used to do architectural work for them and a major retail developer, who's centers are typically anchored by Publix).  Publix's CEO told me the average household income and residential population of the Northbank/surrounding neighborhoods did not meet their minimum locational requirements.  As a rule of thumb, a chain that size typically needs a local market population of around 20k to make it their worthwhile.  DT is no where near that.  While we can exceed that number by including the surrounding neighborhoods, they also have to account for the fact that they already have two stores (Gateway/Riverside), another proposed (San Marco) and a Winn-Dixie and Food Lion within a five mile radius.  A new chain would have to be willing to accept that there are already 4 grocery markets and one proposed within a five mile radius of downtown (and I'm not even including what's in Arlington or down Beach and Atlantic Blvds).  If people want a full blown grocery near downtown, in addition to the Winn Dixie that already exists, it would be better to focus on a smaller niche market like an ALDI.

[wsansewjs]

Have you ever lived in New York?

Haha no, but I have visited there plenty of time, have good friends who live there, etc. There are more activities, more options, more things in New York especially New York City than Jacksonville.

-Josh

[CityLife]

The demographics are there, City Life.

The problem is the toxic bubble of policies in Downtown.

Like Springfield, the reason the commercial district failed to develop had a lot more to do with policy and politics than it did with demographics.

^They aren't, at least in the case of Publix (I used to do architectural work for them and a major retail developer, who's centers are typically anchored by Publix).  Publix's CEO told me the average household income and residential population of the Northbank/surrounding neighborhoods did not meet their minimum locational requirements.  As a rule of thumb, a chain that size typically needs a local market population of around 20k to make it their worthwhile.  DT is no where near that.  While we can exceed that number by including the surrounding neighborhoods, they also have to account for the fact that they already have two stores (Gateway/Riverside), another proposed (San Marco) and a Winn-Dixie and Food Lion within a five mile radius.  A new chain would have to be willing to accept that there are already 4 grocery markets and one proposed within a five mile radius of downtown (and I'm not even including what's in Arlington or down Beach and Atlantic Blvds).  If people want a full blown grocery near downtown, in addition to the Winn Dixie that already exists, it would be better to focus on a smaller niche market like an ALDI.

If they aren't there for a Publix, they sure as heck aren't there for a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.

I think ALDI is a great idea Lake. I know they are expanding all over Florida and recently went into Daytona Beach.

I wanted to go after them for a location in Springfield....but......

[copperfiend]

We need a Trader Joe or Whole Food Market here more often. Publix and Winn-Dixie has dominantly inflated the local market to the point that it is much expensive here as it is in California or New York where the living standards are higher and cost more than here in Jacksonville.

-Josh

I know first hand that a powerful entity is working to bring a viable competitor to Jacksonville/Florida to combat Publix.

It isn't Trader Joe's though.

Best of luck but they will go the way of Albertson's and Harris Teeter. Not only did they pack up and leave but Publix bought alot of their old locations.

[copperfiend]

Have you ever lived in New York?

Haha no, but I have visited there plenty of time, have good friends who live there, etc. There are more activities, more options, more things in New York especially New York City than Jacksonville.

-Josh

Yeah and it's hella more expensive to go grocery shopping in NY than it is at Publix or Winn Dixie.