What would improve Murray Hill?

[James]

I've read a little more on "complete streets" - I know that fieldafm mentioned them earlier - do complete streets currently exist in jacksonville anywhere?  I think that might solve numerous issues, making safe areas for bikes and walkers would increase pedestrian traffic, which could increase the business along Edgewood, and potentially attract new merchants and residents.  It seems like to make a conversion to "complete streets" would take a grant and/or some real buy in by JTA or the city?

[urbaknight]

I think the businesses along Edgewood should have a few floors on top of them for apartments. Anybody that's been to northeast New Jersey would know exactly what I'm talking about. (think of Bayonne, Jersey City, Hoboken, Elizabeth, etc)

[thelakelander]

I've read a little more on "complete streets" - I know that fieldafm mentioned them earlier - do complete streets currently exist in jacksonville anywhere?

Hendricks Avenue is a good example of a complete streets makeover.  It was originally a narrow four lane undivided road.  It was reconstructed as a three lane roadway with bike lanes and wider sidewalks.



The recent pedestrian project by JTA on Kings Road is also an example of implementing some complete streets concepts along a constrained arterial facility.

I think that might solve numerous issues, making safe areas for bikes and walkers would increase pedestrian traffic, which could increase the business along Edgewood, and potentially attract new merchants and residents.  It seems like to make a conversion to "complete streets" would take a grant and/or some real buy in by JTA or the city?

It would take some real buy in from COJ's Public Works, JTA and FDOT.  Within the urban core, many roads are already wide enough, so simple restripping efforts would accomplish a lot at an affordable cost.

[peestandingup]

I also think they should decrease some of the parking in the business district. It seems they've crammed in as many spaces for cars as that little area could possibly hold & it doesnt exactly look inviting for pedestrians. Avondale sorta suffers from the "sea of cars" look when you stroll through, but its not as bad.

I think side lots & spaces are the way to go. Don't mess up your storefronts by hiding them behind nothing but cars.

[cline]

I also think they should decrease some of the parking in the business district. It seems they've crammed in as many spaces for cars as that little area could possibly hold & it doesnt exactly look inviting for pedestrians. Avondale sorta suffers from the "sea of cars" look when you stroll through, but its not as bad.

I think side lots & spaces are the way to go. Don't mess up your storefronts by hiding them behind nothing but cars.

One advantage of on-street parking is that it helps to create a buffer between pedestrians and the road.  Makes being on the sidewalk a more ped friendly.  One of the problems with the Murray Hill area along Edgewood is that the sidewalk is a little too narrow so it makes it hard for the businesses to add to the pedestrian vibrancy by adding tables and chairs or signs.  Avondale does not have this issues since their sidewalks are much wider.

A solution to this would be to reduce the 4 lanes on Edgewood from Mayflower up to College and make it a two lane with a center turn lane (three-lane section).  This could allow for more sidewalk room while preserving the angled parking.  As Lake mentioned, this was done on Hendricks Avenue.  There's really no reason to have a four-lane section here especially when the inner lane periodically turns into a left turn lane.  It creates a weird weaving pattern for the people who do not normall drive the road and don't know where the inner lane turns into a dedicated left turn lane.

[peestandingup]

I also think they should decrease some of the parking in the business district. It seems they've crammed in as many spaces for cars as that little area could possibly hold & it doesnt exactly look inviting for pedestrians. Avondale sorta suffers from the "sea of cars" look when you stroll through, but its not as bad.

I think side lots & spaces are the way to go. Don't mess up your storefronts by hiding them behind nothing but cars.

One advantage of on-street parking is that it helps to create a buffer between pedestrians and the road.  Makes being on the sidewalk a more ped friendly.  One of the problems with the Murray Hill area along Edgewood is that the sidewalk is a little too narrow so it makes it hard for the businesses to add to the pedestrian vibrancy by adding tables and chairs or signs.  Avondale does not have this issues since their sidewalks are much wider.

A solution to this would be to reduce the 4 lanes on Edgewood from Mayflower up to College and make it a two lane with a center turn lane (three-lane section).  This could allow for more sidewalk room while preserving the angled parking.  As Lake mentioned, this was done on Hendricks Avenue.  There's really no reason to have a four-lane section here especially when the inner lane periodically turns into a left turn lane.  It creates a weird weaving pattern for the people who do not normall drive the road and don't know where the inner lane turns into a dedicated left turn lane.

I think a good idea then would be to widen that sidewalk. But in order to do that, you'd have to take away the parking that is directly in front of the stores. But you could leave the spaces that are in the middle.

I think that would be a win.

[cline]

I also think they should decrease some of the parking in the business district. It seems they've crammed in as many spaces for cars as that little area could possibly hold & it doesnt exactly look inviting for pedestrians. Avondale sorta suffers from the "sea of cars" look when you stroll through, but its not as bad.

I think side lots & spaces are the way to go. Don't mess up your storefronts by hiding them behind nothing but cars.

One advantage of on-street parking is that it helps to create a buffer between pedestrians and the road.  Makes being on the sidewalk a more ped friendly.  One of the problems with the Murray Hill area along Edgewood is that the sidewalk is a little too narrow so it makes it hard for the businesses to add to the pedestrian vibrancy by adding tables and chairs or signs.  Avondale does not have this issues since their sidewalks are much wider.

A solution to this would be to reduce the 4 lanes on Edgewood from Mayflower up to College and make it a two lane with a center turn lane (three-lane section).  This could allow for more sidewalk room while preserving the angled parking.  As Lake mentioned, this was done on Hendricks Avenue.  There's really no reason to have a four-lane section here especially when the inner lane periodically turns into a left turn lane.  It creates a weird weaving pattern for the people who do not normall drive the road and don't know where the inner lane turns into a dedicated left turn lane.

I think a good idea then would be to widen that sidewalk. But in order to do that, you'd have to take away the parking that is directly in front of the stores. But you could leave the spaces that are in the middle.

I think that would be a win.

I was referring more to the blocks north of Mayflower Street.  Since Edgewood is only two lanes for the block between Mayflower south to Plymouth with angled parking in the middle, this option would not be feasible.  What you might be able to do would be to keep the angled parking that is in the center of the road and change the current angled parking that is in front of the businesses and change it to true parallel parking.  This might be able to free up some more sidewalk space.  Like you mentioned though, for this block you could do away with the parking in front of the stores and widen the sidewalks since they already have parking in the center.  Not sure how the businesses would feel about this although Moon River might be on board since it would allow them to add outdoor seating.

[mtraininjax]

The Murray Hill Business Owners Association disbanded because no one really wanted to build a cohesive group to stand up to the city. So Gary and Sandy Polenta of Edgewood Bakery, they tried really hard to build a solid group too, gave up and went back to their business.

For those who would like a 2-lane road and wider sidewalks, so would many of the people to slow down traffic and make it easier to walk up and down, but sadly each block costs close to a million bucks to fix the traffic, sidewalks, pavement and lights. So Springfield got that money and Murray Hill got improvements around Mayflower and then up at Post/Edgewood. Not enough money to do it all.

San Juan could REALLY benefit from a complete streets makeover

When did San Juan become part of Murray Hill? As a member of MHPA, it might be interesting to know that the southern boundary of Murray Hill ends at Park Street (along Park from Cassat to 17)

The old Winn Dixie is a stone's throw from the one on Normandy, is it really so hard to walk or drive a couple of blocks?

[fieldafm]

When did San Juan become part of Murray Hill? As a member of MHPA, it might be interesting to know that the southern boundary of Murray Hill ends at Park Street (along Park from Cassat to 17)
.

I'm very much well aware... I was mentioning San Juan in an antecdotal fashion. 

[Dashing Dan]

Physical or design improvements like complete streets would help, but in my view what Murray Hill needs is most likely to come to us via the mobility plan or the end of concurrency in Florida. 

Urban growth boundaries would also add incentives for development in areas like this.  I've been to neighborhoods in Portland that used to be like Murray Hill, and that are now quite successful, due to Portland's urban growth boundary.

[ChriswUfGator]

On top of that, a full featured grocery store (even a small one). And more useful businesses in the Edgewood business district. How many times are you actually gonna go to the shoe repair shop?? Residents basically have to go to either Riverside or Normandy for anything useful. And they're too far to walk, so you'd be driving.

Murray Hill always struct me as a place that would be really cool to live (I really like the modest home sizes over there), but they just cant seem to get over that hump.

There's a gigantic winn-dixie at the corner of post and cassat, how much closer are you looking for?

[peestandingup]

On top of that, a full featured grocery store (even a small one). And more useful businesses in the Edgewood business district. How many times are you actually gonna go to the shoe repair shop?? Residents basically have to go to either Riverside or Normandy for anything useful. And they're too far to walk, so you'd be driving.

Murray Hill always struct me as a place that would be really cool to live (I really like the modest home sizes over there), but they just cant seem to get over that hump.

There's a gigantic winn-dixie at the corner of post and cassat, how much closer are you looking for?

You mean the one on Normandy in the quasi-hood just down from the porn shop??

Anyways, does anyone really consider this part of Murray Hill? I sure wouldn't. Its not just about distance, but being integrated into the actual neighborhood & walkable (like the Riverside Publix & soon-to-be San Marco Publix).

I mean, why not just add the Normandy Wal-Mart being part of Murray Hill as well??

[Fallen Buckeye]

Been actually looking at moving to Murray Hill because I actually like that Edgewood corridor for the most part, but one of my problems with Murray Hill is that when you go into a lot of the residential areas there are few sidewalks and narrow streets. I don't want to have to walk in middle of the road to get somewhere, and I definitely don't want my kids out in the middle of the road when they want to go to the park or something. Even a busy corridor like Post St. that is plenty wide enough to support a sidewalk on both sides doesn't have them.

I think that Edgewood is ok for now. I spend a fair amount of time there, and I think that they have some very cool businesses there. Crazy Egg is a great addition. Love Edgewood Bakery. I think the consignment shops are cool, too. My kids love the Dreamette. I don't think Edgewood Ave. is particularly unfriendly for a pedestrian. I think upgrading the pedestrian features (especially sidewalks) on the adjacent streets should be a much bigger priority to the area than upgrading Edgewood.

[Ocklawaha]

Relay the streetcar tracks from the end of College, across the CSX, and south along the west side the CSX to Edgewood, in the center of Edgewood Village, a simple "run around track" some landscaping, and a nice station shelter.... STREETCAR NEIGHBORHOOD REVIVED....

Then there is San Jose, Saint Nicholas, Avondale, Fairfax, Ortega, Venita, Brentwood, New Springfield, Mann-Jennings Park, Durkeeville, Farmers Market, Lackawanna, and.... CAMP JOHNSTON NAS JAX.

OCKLAWAHA

[John P]

Sidewalks are a big deal.