Courthouse Asphalt or Green Space: The Choice Is Yours?

[thelakelander]

It would help if they show the actual drawing of the proposed new road.


It didn't hit me until this morning.  The courthouse parking garage's main entrance is on Clay Street.  To access the garage from Monroe, one would have to take this loop around the courthouse, turn right on Pearl.  After a block on Pearl, turn right on Adams and drive a block before making a left on Clay.  That's a lot of unnessary vehicle movement in what is supposed to be a pedestrian friendly downtown.  Its much easier to send courthouse traffic down Forsyth, enabling users to make a left onto Clay.

In looking at the BRT phase one plan that you posted, is it just me or does this plan almost entirely duplicate the route of the Skyway on the southbank?

Yes, it does.  However, some at JTA actually believe they aren't duplicate routes and won't compete for ridership.

[Captain Zissou]

I saw that picture after writing my previous comment.  Think of that road on a rainy day.  They might want to reconsider adding that pedestrian bridge from the old federal courthouse to the new courthouse.  Cars are going to slide out straight into that corner of the federal courthouse.

If they do go with the plaza, they could build great complete street concepts into the north side of Forsyth. 

[jcjohnpaint]

I am disappointed in the article.  I feel that he could have provided more factual information like how much would be spent on re-building Monroe Street in comparison to the plaza.

I understand that Mr. Corrigan is a City Councilman, but when he states that the "general public assumes it's going to be open", I wonder how he came to that conclusion.  It has been 7 years since the general public used Monroe Street to access downtown.

I don't think Mr. Corrigan considers the general public.  This project has been shortsighted ever since the exit off of 95 was put there. 

[urbaknight]

I saw this story on the news last night, and was cautiously excited that the mayor had finally made a good choice about something. However, I was disappointed to hear the media sounding as if it were against the park and of like mind of the stupidity of JAX at large. They even spoke unfavorably about the art, mentioning the cost of the art. And the lack of having the road, they made it sound like a bad thing. Perhaps we need an overhall in the local media as well.

[fieldafm]

I saw this story on the news last night, and was cautiously excited that the mayor had finally made a good choice about something. However, I was disappointed to hear the media sounding as if it were against the park and of like mind of the stupidity of JAX at large. They even spoke unfavorably about the art, mentioning the cost of the art. And the lack of having the road, they made it sound like a bad thing. Perhaps we need an overhall in the local media as well.

I woke up a little earlier than usual today and caught the morning news... it is imperative to contact your council member b/c the news outlets are spinning this in a very dishonest way.

[dougskiles]

I haven't seen any of the TV news (because nothing is more boring to me than televised news programs).  Have any of them given a cost comparison between the road construction and the park construction?

[fsujax]

no.

[jcjohnpaint]

and that is why I refer to Metro Jacksonville for real news. 

[fieldafm]

Have any of them given a cost comparison between the road construction and the park construction?

No, and they are presenting the story in a way that says that the money for this public plaza is somehow new money thrown at the project and is nothing more than another example of government spending your money. 

It's slanted, sloppy and dishonest.

[dougskiles]

Who would be the best people in these organizations to appeal to?

[stjr]

One day, the proposed plaza/green space might make a great spot for an Adam's Street streetcar "station".  That would sure beat having Monroe snake through the place.  In fact, maybe Monroe itself would make a great east-west street car line.  The streetcar, not the street, could zip around the courthouse front.

[stjr]

Ted, I agreed with you on the useless Skyway but this quote by you I don't.  Why don't you support a streetcar line and scrap the street?

Jacksonville council scraps plan to close Monroe Street
Source URL: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-02-08/story/jacksonville-council-scraps-plan-close-monroe-street

By Steve Patterson

Jacksonville’s City Council on Tuesday detoured a plan to permanently close Monroe Street at the new Duval County courthouse, stripping the idea from a bill involving the courthouse project.

“If you really wan to close this street, bring a separate bill ... [and] we’ll have a community discussion,” Councilman Michael Corrigan said as he pushed to prevent the closure.

The closure was part of a package of ideas the Mayor’s Office sent to council members last month, saying reopening was impractical because the front of the new courthouse bulges into the roadway.

However a series of residents, including design professionals, argued for reconfiguring the road during a hearing that preceded the council’s action.

Speakers said Monroe Street, which dates to the 1870s, is a key piece of the city’s web of downtown streets, and the only direct link between Interstate 95 and the Hart Expressway on the other side of downtown.

“I wish we had something to protect important streets that are the lifeblood of our city,” said Ted Pappas, a former national president of the American Institute of Architects.

Pappas showed council members a rough sketch of a possible route for the street that would use part of an area that city officials wanted to treat as a plaza and said it was possible to have both. His idea was not part of what the council voted for.

Regardless of whether the road ever reopens, some new legislation appears to be inevitable. The city had previously committed to reopen the road but did not identify a new right of way to avoid the courthouse, so some decision is needed either to abandon the road or reroute it.

Both choices could have downsides, said Councilman Bill Bishop, who referenced support for the closure from the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission.

“I understand why JEDC wants to close the street, because we have this behemoth of a building in the street,” Bishop said, adding he was worried that arcing around the building could leave an impractically narrow sliver of land for where the plaza would have been.

But with downtown streets dominated by one-way routes, he said, leaving Monroe closed means “you have to go either two blocks north or two blocks south ... which would not be a good idea.”

After stripping out the road closure, the council sent the remainder of the bill back to a series of committees, which will take up subjects including a proposal to send $629,000 appointing the plaza with benches, lighting and other amenities.

[tufsu1]

I think a delay on this is fair...at least until the downtown traffic circulation study is complete...if other streets are converted to two-way, there is very little need to reopen Monroe

[Ralph W]

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Jacksonville council scraps plan to close Monroe Street
Source URL: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-02-08/story/jacksonville-council-scraps-plan-close-monroe-street

By Steve Patterson

Speakers said Monroe Street, which dates to the 1870s, is a key piece of the city’s web of downtown streets, and the only direct link between Interstate 95 and the Hart Expressway on the other side of downtown.

I guess nobody ever used Forsyth St. to get to the Hart Expressway. Every time I use the Forsyth St. exit from I-95 it gets me right to the Hart - no turns.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I guess nobody ever used Forsyth St. to get to the Hart Expressway. Every time I use the Forsyth St. exit from I-95 it gets me right to the Hart - no turns.

Well, no turns per se, but you do have to make a little jog to the left to avoid another fantasticly planned gov't building.  Duval Hilton anyone.