Are JTA's Priorities Off-Track?

[JeffreyS]

Testify Ock.

[Dashing Dan]

Let's not forget that as the headquarters city for CSX, Jacksonville is the focal point for what's left of about half of the railroads that have ever operated east of the Mississippi River, including B&O, the C&O, and most of the NY Central, along with the two main Florida railroads, i.e. the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard.  We're also the headquarters city for the other main Florida railroad, i.e. the FEC.  If any city in the US deserves more passenger trains, it's got to be Jacksonville.

[stjr]

800 West Water

Isn't the Federal Reserve Building vacant or supposed to be vacant soon? That's right in front of the JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL.

you know ock, I thought the same thing about the Fed Reserve Building. I cant find anything about it though, I thought I heard or read somewhere they were closing or moving.

Sorry, folks. I don't think the Fed is going anywhere else soon.  I recently spoke with someone in the know there and came away with the impression that, while they have dramatically scaled back due to the transfer of check processing to other sites and through electronic transactions, the remaining function of warehousing and distributing currency and administrating other Fed functions is well ensconced. 

The have leased an excess portion of the building to others but the special purpose Fed Reserve customized vault room(s), etc. are too special to give up.

[stjr]

I propose splitting JTA into a road building and mass transit agency.  The road building agency should pack up and move in with FDOT's road builders at Stockton and I-10.  There is little difference in the agenda's of the two so they might as well hitch up to each other as "husband and wife".    While we are at it, let the rubber stamp TPO move in with them too.  TPO never saw a JTA/FDOT road they didn't approve and has never shown evidence of taking the initiative to bringing a mass transit project to reality that I can recall.

The mass transit agency should be tied to an urban planning department focused on infill and connectivity within existing infrastructure.  If FDOT is built like JTA, it, too, should be split, and its mass transit group should bunk with the local mass transit people.  Maybe this would help both the urban area and downtown with a new level of vision sharing and coordination that totally does NOT exist now with JTA, FDOT, and TPO.

With technology today, JTA's offices don't need to be at a location that is in proximity to any particular transit infrastructure.  As someone mentioned, what is needed is for JTA employees to ride/use the systems they are responsible for.  Having an office within a block of the systems that they never use will just get us back to where we are now:  An agency clueless about the how to execute their mission.

[stjr]

my god, when you are right, you are right.  100% agree with you STJR.

I'm buying lottery tickets.  I am on a roll here with you. 

[dougskiles]

my god, when you are right, you are right.  100% agree with you STJR.

Ditto.  I think as long as we stay away from the six-letter 'S' word we are on the same page.  Oh no - did I just ruin it?

[Ocklawaha]

my god, when you are right, you are right.  100% agree with you STJR.

I'm buying lottery tickets.  I am on a roll here with you.  

Metro Jacksonville > Community > Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure > DVI Opposes Downtown BRT Plan

...If JTA is not listening, it begs the question, "Why are we one of only 2 major Cities with a highway builder trying to play Transit Agency?"

This is a major step in the right direction, paint the City green with electric mass-transit...

Split up JTA? Why? Just go spend some time in the American Road Builders or Highway Builders web-sites and you get a pretty clear image of the conflict's that lay within JTA. I'm sure when the Consolidation spirit swept them up with all of the other City agency's, no one suspected this was like putting a cat in a box with a rat, then try to shake until mixed. Here is a sample of one recent fight in PA. Highway builders are waging a public campaign against the state's funding scheme for mass transit, saying bus and subway riders in the Philadelphia area benefit at the expense of motorists in the rest of the state.  

Ocklawaha

Metro Jacksonville > Community > Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure > Post reply ( Re: BRT Meeting Held at City Hall )

HIGH NOON FOR BRT!

...Cat out of the bag anyone? A big ugly diesel cat, in circus colors, with rubber tires, belching as it goes, BRT my friends.

1. Let's gear up to stop the "Pathway of Death" before we build it to rip it apart.

2. Let's talk to the City about forming a downtown Light Rail Heritage and Commuter Rail District, with dedicated funding and take this project away from JTA, FTA and FDOT.

3. Take the Skyway away from them and add it to our Special District.

4.. Let's split up JTA and send the highway builders to an attractive new office with black glass windows, in the center of a 40 acre parking lot. Hold the AC, too expensive, I mean, the poor live without it right?

"WE THE PEOPLE, IN CONVENTION ASSEMBLED..." We have the power!

Ocklawaha

Deja Vu eh Stephen?

OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

I propose splitting JTA into a road building and mass transit agency.  The road building agency should pack up and move in with FDOT's road builders at Stockton and I-10.  There is little difference in the agenda's of the two so they might as well hitch up to each other as "husband and wife".    While we are at it, let the rubber stamp TPO move in with them too.  TPO never saw a JTA/FDOT road they didn't approve and has never shown evidence of taking the initiative to bringing a mass transit project to reality that I can recall.

The mass transit agency should be tied to an urban planning department focused on infill and connectivity within existing infrastructure.  If FDOT is built like JTA, it, too, should be split, and its mass transit group should bunk with the local mass transit people.  Maybe this would help both the urban area and downtown with a new level of vision sharing and coordination that totally doe NOT exist now with JTA, FDOT, and TPO.

With technology today, JTA's offices don't need to be at a location that is in proximity to any particular transit infrastructure.  As someone mentioned, what is needed is for JTA employees to ride/use the systems they are responsible for.  Having an office within a block of the systems that they never use will just get us back to where we are now:  An agency clueless about the how to execute their mission.

my god, when you are right, you are right.  100% agree with you STJR.

Stephen and I just had this conversation yesterday actually, about how JTA's dual purposes are diametrically opposed to one another, and how it's self-defeating to have the same agency responsible for both functions, and how they need to be split off. 110% agree with you stjr.

[stjr]

^Chris, I will add your comment to the impetus for me to buy those lottery tickets. 

Ock, I think many of us here have advocated previously for a JTA split and I recognize your comments amongst them.  I was just taking the opportunity to advocate once again, in the context of this thread, for so doing.  It's good to see so many of us on the same page, whatever our issues may be elsewhere.

Let's hope someone (mayoral candidates?) is paying attention.

[dougskiles]

Aside from the political element - which I recognize is the largest part of it - what could keep this split from occuring?  JTA is a state agency.  Is there anything in their charter that requires them to be the only transit agency in Jacksonville?  What would have to happen for this to become reality?  Would the city have to buy the resources?

The flip side of the argument - and what JTA reps will likely say - is that Jacksonville has benefited from JTA being somewhat isolated from the city's ever-changing political wind.  But to that I would say, what change?  Haven't we been doing the same basic thing for 50 years?

[stjr]

The flip side of the argument - and what JTA reps will likely say - is that Jacksonville has benefited from JTA being somewhat isolated from the city's ever-changing political wind.

Doug, I don't think I can agree with this proposition.  My experience is that JTA has consistently blown in the direction of all the political winds (which are not so "ever-changing" as I see it) created by developers and landholders since its creation.  The proof is in the pudding we see today.  Not sure how great the benefits have been to those who are outside of these special interest groups.  JTA projects have contributed to the downfall of downtown, the ruination of neighborhoods bulldozed by its expressways and other road projects, the destruction of our environment by creating urban sprawl, the congestion of our roads and fouling of our air by failing to offer alternative modes of transportation, the degradation of the quality of life in our community by all of the aforementioned issues, etc.  Not that all of that is JTA's fault alone, but JTA has failed to show one ounce of leadership in addressing any of those issues with those who push them to do as they have done.  Thus, JTA is a willing co-conspirator and co-contributor to all these results.

I would expect a JTA supporter to argue that JTA has created economic development for the City by its "contributions" but I would suggest all of this and more could have been achieved with a much different approach to many of the projects JTA has tackled.  By example, we have discussed here how a greater emphasis on rail access to the port would be a both a superior solution and greater economic stimulus than building ever more and bigger access roads.  Would JTA dare push for this position?  Another example: Is there a single JTA project that has advanced downtown or, in summation, have all those expressways, bus system designs, Skyway, bridges, beltways, etc. conspired to drive development away?  Has JTA offered a single appropriate and well conceived solution to advance downtown?

To be clear, I am not saying every road project is bad, just that JTA has a dismal batting record of being proficient and competent in creating, advocating, and/or discriminating between good and bad alternatives.  This has been way more detrimental than beneficial over the decades to our community.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, I think many of us here have advocated previously for a JTA split and I recognize your comments amongst them.  I was just taking the opportunity to advocate once again, in the context of this thread, for so doing.  It's good to see so many of us on the same page, whatever our issues may be elsewhere.

Let's hope someone (mayoral candidates?) is paying attention.

Another brilliant solution from City Hall.

Oh I agree stjr, I'm just making the point that we've been saying this for years... and like everything else at the city level, these stripped assed apes blow us off like a swarm of blithering pygmy idiots.

Even in their own palatal sanctuary these guys are frequently at war with themselves... no freaking wonder, having these completely separate purposes or industries under the same roof is as stupid as having GM, Goodyear, Phillips 66, Standard Oil and Greyhound buy up and run your streetcar system.

Oop's we already did that didn't we? And we've been screwing the pooch since 1936.

In the context of today, or in the context of 2006-7 the statement has never rang truer.

SPLIT UP JTA!

Salute my friend, salute... It's hard to be the "Bold New City of the South," when it's decisions are made by a pack of howling cowardly old hillbillies, often imported from the north's nether regions.

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

Short answer to split up JTA requires an act of the Florida Legislature, to amend Chapter 349.  Which would require the Duval Delegation to propose it.
Chapter 349: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter349

[tufsu1]

TPO never saw a JTA/FDOT road they didn't approve and has never shown evidence of taking the initiative to bringing a mass transit project to reality that I can recall.

the TPO sets priorities but it doesn't build/implement projects...now, as to transit issue, the TPO identified funding for commuter rail, streetcar, and yes BRT in the adopted 2035 long range plan....which means those projects now get on the priority list.

[stjr]

TPO never saw a JTA/FDOT road they didn't approve and has never shown evidence of taking the initiative to bringing a mass transit project to reality that I can recall.

the TPO sets priorities but it doesn't build/implement projects...now, as to transit issue, the TPO identified funding for commuter rail, streetcar, and yes BRT in the adopted 2035 long range plan....which means those projects now get on the priority list.

Tufsu, the question is where on the priority list?  Ahead of 9B, the Outer Beltway, JTB interchange, the 9A/I-95 north ramp, the Blanding/I-295 interchange, Collins Road interchange, JTB widening, etc.?  I bet most or all of those road projects will be funded and completed before new mass transit initiatives.  And, I bet the mass transit initiatives will continue, as they have in the past, to be pushed down that "priority list" by newly created road priorities as we move toward 2035 or any other targeted date.  After all, as you note, the TPO just "lists" priorities, they don't deliver on them.  A dog with no bite.

Per the above, I would suggest the TPO's "priorities" for any given near term (i.e. those most likely to actually come to fruition) highly correlate with JTA and FDOT road agendas. That doesn't show much independent thinking to me.