Are JTA's Priorities Off-Track?

[Ocklawaha]

Short answer to split up JTA requires an act of the Florida Legislature, to amend Chapter 349.  Which would require the Duval Delegation to propose it.
Chapter 349: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter349

Same rules applied to the JAA-JPA split.

TUFSU, could the TPO make a recommendation that the transit functions be removed from JTA?

OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

Instead of pulling transit away from JTA, it might be better to pull the road building function away and let FDOT handle it.  Seems like a huge duplication of effort to me.  Plus I can't say I trust the City of Jacksonville with transit any more than JTA - perhaps even less.

[thelakelander]

At least with COJ, you have the opportunity to integrate transit with community planning and visioning efforts. Right now, it's pretty clear that JTA is operating on their own island with priorities and visions that don't align with the community.

[Dog Walker]

Had a friend of mine who worked for FDOT for years.  He told me something that seems to apply to JTA as well.

"The FDOT's idea of mixed transit is half asphalt and half concrete."

[dougskiles]

At least with COJ, you have the opportunity to integrate transit with community planning and visioning efforts. Right now, it's pretty clear that JTA is operating on their own island with priorities and visions that don't align with the community.

Or it could also completely backfire when a mayor is elected who decides to mothball our transit system.

[tufsu1]

Tufsu, the question is where on the priority list?  Ahead of 9B, the Outer Beltway, JTB interchange, the 9A/I-95 north ramp, the Blanding/I-295 interchange, Collins Road interchange, JTB widening, etc.?  I bet most or all of those road projects will be funded and completed before new mass transit initiatives. 

as you can imagine, it takes many years to get projects funded....sadly projects like 9B have been on the drawing board for a long time, wheras the idea of commuter rail here is less than 5 years old.

[Ocklawaha]

As much as I like the candidate in question, I CANNOT support him if he holds to this one point... It's the same syndrome that has effected Amtrak ever since 1971. "Here's $1.98, now go run a system that covers these cities, with these routes, run a single train each way daily and oh yeah, MAKE MONEY DOING IT." Not to mention in a country more then 1,000 miles from north to south, and nearly 3,000 miles from east to west, we've assigned Amtrak to do it with the same number of trains (15) that California runs between Oceanside and San Diego. Imagine the insanity of that?

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

hey what is status of commuter rail in jacksonville

[JeffreyS]

Right now they are being Scotted.

[tufsu1]

I believe JTA has been getting ready for the next phase of studies....should be starting in the next few months

[exnewsman]

City Council tends to take a very miopic view of issues focusing only on what their particular little world (district) needs/wants. Rarely do they think long-term which is what is required for transit planning 10, 20 and 30 years into the future. Those issues are a priority because the individual council members won't be in the seat to reap the benefits.

But for all the JTA bashing that goes on here and elsewhere, and some of it justified, JTA is pursuing HSR (with the southeast HSR coalition linking from Atlanta/Macon), commuter rail and streetcars - all of which are priorities with MJ. The bus system needs some work, but there has been improvement in that area as well in regards to frequencies and less duplication. Perfect? Hardly. But I would say improving.

The road projects are a separate beast. Most of the recent work by JTA has been Better Jacksonville Plan related. But that money is basically gone and many projects dropped by COJ. Some other projects come from FDOT. So JTA hasn't really initiated road project work - mostly managed it - for a long time.

Not sure what would breaking up the band would solve at this point?

[Ocklawaha]

Not sure what would breaking up the band would solve at this point?

Here are just a few of THOUSANDS of examples why breaking up the band is a very good idea.

TOLL ROAD NEWS

Toll authorities threatened by NYC-NJ ARC rail tunnel boondoggle
Posted on Mon, 2010-10-25 01:33
...And it should be looking at ways of helping NJ buses from the Lincoln Tunnel move more efficiently over to the eastside core of Manhattan - one seat bus rides to where New Jersey commuters want to go in NY City rather than all being dumped out at the PA Bus Terminal on the westside...
SOURCE: http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/4953

TOLL ROAD NEWS

Why road?

Here's the answer:

Rubber tires on roads provide vastly more efficient and useful transportation service because of the pervasiveness of roads and the variety and ubiquity of road vehicles. Everyone is connected to the road network via the hierarchy of expressways, arterials, distributors, local streets, driveways, parking lots and loading docks.

The road network extends into every property in the country - allowing door to door travel and door to door deliveries. Moreover the road network supports a rich array of different vehicles specialized and tailormade to user needs, most of them privately financed and operated.

Rail can't possibly compete for most trips made because it lacks the same depth of small feeders and connections at each end of most trips.  How many properties in America have a rail siding as compared to having a driveway or parking spot or loading dock? And rail can't cater to the variety of privately financed and operated vehicles that roads cater to.
SOURCE: http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5167

TRUCK DRIVER NEWS

The railroads compete with trucking directly for a portion of the freight market. Railroads only want to have trucks carry the short haul loads in the US, with Railroads owning all the long haul business. Normally, the “market” would determine if Railroads deserve to “own” the long distance freight business if they could prove they are more efficient than Trucking.

Unfortunately for the railroads, the market has already decided that trucks are more efficient for the high value items needed in small locations throughout the US. Railroads are great at hauling massive amounts of coal, sand or wheat, but they are not so good at delivering six cars to the Toyota dealership in Richmond, VA from Kentucky by next Tuesday.

So the Railroads cheat a little bit. They have something the Real Estate developers want â€" a means to move lots of commuters from the 1/4 acre lots that make developers rich to the high paying jobs in the city centers that taxpayers will stupidly support â€" rail lines. And they trade their established rail lines to the real estate developers for the influence the developers have with politicians.

The railroads get the politicians to delay and study new rail routes while at the same time the politicians don’t do anything that will really relieve traffic congestion on the highways.
SOURCE: http://www.truckdriversnews.com/rail-system-vs-highway-infrastructure-follow-the-money/

METRO MAGAZINE (Primarily Bus Transit, OCK)

The impact of the ever-worsening traffic congestion in the U.S. is substantial in time, resources and pollution.
The Texas Transportation Institute’s 2002 Urban Mobility Report estimates that in 75 urban areas the total congestion bill for 2000 came to $67.5 billion. That is the value of 3.6 billion hours of delay and 5.7 billion gallons of excess fuel consumed. In an attempt to lessen traffic congestion and present buses as a more reliable and effective highspeed transit alternative, the concept of bus rapid transit (BRT) has emerged as a viable means of improving mobility.

In recent years, cities across the U.S. elected to build light rail lines. Although high in cost and lengthy in construction, these systems reduce congestion and often attract the added benefit of private investments and residential development.  However, BRT systems have proven far less costly and faster to implement, and can stimulate economic growth.
SOURCE:  http://www.metro-magazine.com/Resources/guest_editorial.pdf

Railroad passengers paid for airport construction through special tax!

Between 1942 and 1962 a 10% rail ticket tax was levied on railroads as a war measure to discourage unnecessary travel. This tax generated revenues of over $5 Billion, which went into the general revenue fund and ironically, was used in some
cases to build more airports and highways. In today's dollars, that probably would amount to about $100 billion and one wonders what would have happened if that money had been invested in rail service after the war. By the time, the tax was lifted, the passenger train was already on the ropes.
SOURCE: report by USDOT Secretary William Coleman, 1977

About User Fees... they don't pay the bills

User fees only account for about 60% of highway spending by all levels of government. The rest comes from non-users and in 1990, non-highway users subsidized roads at the rate of $18 billion per year.
SOURCE: Highway Statistics 1990, Tables HF-10 and SMT, Federal Highway Administration

There he goes again...

When the Reagan Administration claimed that each rail passenger required a $35 subsidy, Amtrak President Graham Claytor countered that air passengers were subsidized at $42 each, including $9 for the air traffic control system.
SOURCE: US News and World Report, April 29, 1985

If the airlines had to pay for the cost of the at traffic control system, as Amtrak now pays for the upkeep of the Northeast Corridor, they would soon be out of business. In 1989, it cost the federal government $3 billion to operate the system vs. the combined net profit of $1 billion for the airline industry.
SOURCE: "Supertains": Solutions to America's Transportation Gridlock, Joe Vranich

Or we could leave JTA as a unique experiment in "conflict of interest" as the only major transit agency that is also beholding to the highway lobby. Such a move won't necessarily make JTA smaller and less significant, but in fact might well make it a lean, well oiled REGIONAL transit machine.  Otherwise our "Expressway Authority should be reincarnated.

OCKLAWAHA