Are JTA's Priorities Off-Track?

[Captain Zissou]

^ Ock, that's exactly what I was thinking.  It's a ship headed for a direct collision with I-95.  There's some bigger metaphor in there that i don't have time to figure out.

[dougskiles]

I don't have a problem with the office building.  It makes sense to combine those groups under one roof and have them located at the central area.  I do have problem with all of the parking spaces they are proposing.  We have too many garage parking spaces downtown already.  In fact, they claim that was one of the reasons for the Skyway's poor performance - that the city built too many parking garages.

Why the need for secured parking for staff?  They are missing a great opportunity to set an example and promote the use of their own system.

[thelakelander]

I think the concept of combining these groups under one roof, in a centralized area, is a great idea.  I just openly question if that validates spending $50 million in public funds on a new office building a mile away from the downtown core when it has a +20% vacancy rate.  Like the Universal-Marion (JEA), May-Cohens (COJ), Ed Ball (COJ) and YMCA (COJ) buildings, I think taxpayer dollars are better used putting life back into the heart by reusing existing available structures. 

I can buy the concept of structured parking at JTC since the goal is to make it an intermodal hub.  However, considering everything over there is already underutilized surface parking, a parking garage shouldn't be a high priority either.  Imo, the top priorities should be bringing Amtrak back in and kicking the convention center out.

[spuwho]

It would be interesting to see how JTA services would change if they were forced to eat their own dog food.

Mandatory, they have to park at Kings Street and ride the Skyway everyday (rain or shine).

Better yet, have them park at The Avenues and ride the BRT everyday.

I wonder if any management at JTA get a car allowance?

[Seraphs]

The things being said make perfect sense to me.  Not that JTA will knuckle under and listen to something that makes sense, however, I feel they should be asked these questions.

[dougskiles]

Donna Harper, Board Member (re-appointed by Crist in 2010 - incidentally this is her second stint; she was on from 1999 to 2007)

Anybody who has been on the board for that long around here needs to go!

Apparently, Rick Scott feels the same way.  He rescinded her appointment yesterday.  I nominate Ocklawaha for the position.

The new Republican governor announced Wednesday he was rescinding dozens of appointments made by his predecessor, Charlie Crist, that had not yet been confirmed by the Florida Senate.

He also removed Jacksonville resident Marty Fiorentino from the Enterprise Florida Inc. board and Donna Harper from the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.

Read more at Jacksonville.com:
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2011-02-02/story/grahams-psc-appointment-withdrawn-scott#ixzz1CtWq6EeF

[dougskiles]

I think the concept of combining these groups under one roof, in a centralized area, is a great idea.  I just openly question if that validates spending $50 million in public funds on a new office building a mile away from the downtown core when it has a +20% vacancy rate.  Like the Universal-Marion (JEA), May-Cohens (COJ), Ed Ball (COJ) and YMCA (COJ) buildings, I think taxpayer dollars are better used putting life back into the heart by reusing existing available structures. 

Which downtown building do you suggest?  One of the arguments for changing that I have heard is that they are almost 'shovel ready' with the design.  A redesign would push them several years back in the race for federal funds.  However, they need to ask themselves, how attractive is the project to the FTA when most of the money is being spent on an office building?  Perhaps a scaled-down project would have a better chance for grant approval.

[ChriswUfGator]

They should lease space in any of the existing buildings. AT&T, Barnett, SunTrust, BB&T, Independent Life, take your pick they all have high vacancy rates. The whole Atlantic Bank building is completely vacant. This buikding is another silly boondoggle.

[fsujax]

Stick them in the AT&T tower! then they would be accused having plush offices in a high rise tower downtown. It's a no win situation for the agency.

[dougskiles]

I'm glad you mentioned that, fsujax.  I was running past the school board building yesterday and thinking about how often we hear people question why the school board has prime riverfront office space.  Imagine the outcry if they packed up and left for a suburban office.  How long would the building stay vacant?

While leasing space probably makes more sense economically, I doubt that will happen.  I'm guessing they want to own the property.  Or at least use a government owned facility.  What buildings are available that they could purchase and renovate similar to what has happened with Ed Ball recently.  How much office space do they need?  What about the Hayden Burns library?  Although I'm not personally crazy about the architectural style of the building, it is unique and could be enhanced.

[thelakelander]

I think the concept of combining these groups under one roof, in a centralized area, is a great idea.  I just openly question if that validates spending $50 million in public funds on a new office building a mile away from the downtown core when it has a +20% vacancy rate.  Like the Universal-Marion (JEA), May-Cohens (COJ), Ed Ball (COJ) and YMCA (COJ) buildings, I think taxpayer dollars are better used putting life back into the heart by reusing existing available structures.  

Which downtown building do you suggest?

I'm glad you ask.  We have a pick of the litter downtown.  Here are a few options within a block of the Hemming Plaza Skyway Station.  Most are completely empty and available for immediate sale.

1. Furchgott's Building


2. Atlantic Bank Building


3. Rosenblum's/Exchange Buildings


4. Old JEA Building


There's tons of more space available but these are just a few examples that would bring another public agency into an area envisioned to be the governmental cluster of the Northbank core.  Finding a logical way to reuse many of these buildings is already a significant challenge due to changing demographics.  The city and JEA have done their part.  It would be nice to see JTA follow suit.

One of the arguments for changing that I have heard is that they are almost 'shovel ready' with the design.  A redesign would push them several years back in the race for federal funds.

I've always felt that was a pretty weak argument.  We blew an opportunity to use that $100 million in BJP funds by sitting on it and waiting for federal matching grants instead of investing it on rapid transit and using the value of an actual starter system to lobby for future federal assistance.  In addition, I also feel that we should not be planning our future by only relying on federal funding assistance.  Getting creative and finding other ways to get things quickly implemented the way you want them too is a better way to go.

However, they need to ask themselves, how attractive is the project to the FTA when most of the money is being spent on an office building?

This brings up another issue in the design.  The office building and parking garage design over the skyway may be shovel ready but it doesn't really accomplish the sustainability goals of the current federal administration.  Considering the amount of projects in other city's that do, we may never see this thing win the amount of federal money needed to construct it.
 

Perhaps a scaled-down project would have a better chance for grant approval.

If we can scale it down, we may find out we don't need federal money at all to develop a compact transportation center.  One way to scale it down is to take the office component out of it and reuse an existing structure in the heart of the Northbank core for that purpose.  Not only will purchasing a structure be cheaper, grant money (ex. historic) and city incentives could also help pay for renovation costs, given the benefit hundreds of relocated workers would bring to downtown street life.

[/quote]

Stick them in the AT&T tower! then they would be accused having plush offices in a high rise tower downtown. It's a no win situation for the agency.

You can't please everybody but its a huge win for the agency if they can find a way to accomplish their goals for 1/4 or 1/3 of the cost.  If they can begin to think and set priorities with the end user experience as the top goal, things will fall in place.

[thelakelander]

While leasing space probably makes more sense economically, I doubt that will happen.  I'm guessing they want to own the property.  Or at least use a government owned facility.  What buildings are available that they could purchase and renovate similar to what has happened with Ed Ball recently.  How much office space do they need?

The proposed JTA office building looks to be around 90,000 square feet and will cost $50 million (including the parking garage over the skyway).  With that in mind, I went to loopnet.com and pulled up the asking price for the 162,000 square foot empty old JEA tower.  It's $7 million.  I assume this is on the high end, given that its probably the largest totally vacant structure in DT.



This 19 story office tower is less than one block from the Hemming Plaza skyway station, has some off-street parking (for the big wigs who are too good for mass transit) and across the street from city hall, the federal courthouse and the new county courthouse.  Talk about centralization. 

[thelakelander]

I'm glad you mentioned that, fsujax.  I was running past the school board building yesterday and thinking about how often we hear people question why the school board has prime riverfront office space.  Imagine the outcry if they packed up and left for a suburban office.  How long would the building stay vacant?

Considering the old JEA building is 72,000 square feet more than JTA's proposed office building, perhaps the school board could team up with them and take up the rest.  Pooling their resources together would make things more financially feasible for both.  Such a move would really help pack the governmental cluster envisioned by the city, add thousands of workers to the core (creating opportunities for additional retail/dining at street level) and free up the school board's riverfront property to be sold and returned to the tax rolls.

[ChriswUfGator]

I think they'd be better off in the Atlantic Bank building. The JEA building is way too big, it's double the space they need, who would fill the rest? Also I'm hoping that the JEA building would eventually be returned to private sector use, but given the sorry state of downtown that's probably a pipe dream.

[thelakelander]

They could team up with the school board for the rest or lease the extra space out (generate revenue) to firms wanting to be near the new courthouse.  With an asking price of $7 million, for double the space needed, that's a bargin over paying $50 million for a new building a mile away from the downtown core.  Btw, also looked up the Furchgott's asking price.  It's $3.2 million for 60,000 square feet of space. Combine that with the abandoned 18,600sf Rosenblum's building across the street (also for sale, last occupied by Wachovia) and it will give them 78,600sf to work with for a fraction of the price of constructing a new structure.  Need more, well the six story Exchange Building next door to it is also vacant and available for sale.  The 63,000sf old Atlantic Bank building could be another option.  It's really a pick of the litter in the Northbank.  Given the sorry state of the Northbank, its foolish to think the private sector will come back and fill up all these spaces like it was decades ago.  Thus, if a public agency needs office space, we should be encouraging them to take advantage of the old Northbank core, like COJ and JEA did.