Are JTA's Priorities Off-Track?

[Doctor_K]

^ Email that to everyone at COJ, plus Folio, the T-U, and Jacksonvile magazine.

Someone has to educate them.

[ChriswUfGator]

They could team up with the school board for the rest or lease the extra space out (generate revenue) to firms wanting to be near the new courthouse.  With an asking price of $7 million, for double the space needed, that's a bargin over paying $50 million for a new building a mile away from the downtown core.  Btw, also looked up the Furchgott's asking price.  It's $3.2 million for 60,000 square feet of space. Combine that with the abandoned 18,600sf Rosenblum's building across the street (also for sale, last occupied by Wachovia) and it will give them 78,600sf to work with for a fraction of the price of constructing a new structure.  Need more, well the six story Exchange Building next door to it is also vacant and available for sale.  The 63,000sf old Atlantic Bank building could be another option.  It's really a pick of the litter in the Northbank.  Given the sorry state of the Northbank, its foolish to think the private sector will come back and fill up all these spaces like it was decades ago.  Thus, if a public agency needs office space, we should be encouraging them to take advantage of the old Northbank core, like COJ and JEA did.

Atlantic Bank building is a shade under 100k square feet, Lake. That would be the exact size they need.

[thelakelander]

^I took the square footage number off COJ's property appraiser's site but it's most likely off, given there's more building mass on the AB parcel than Furchgott's next door and the AB parcel is slightly larger.

[exnewsman]

Well as a previous MJ post had sowed, JTA was not th eonly agency that woudl occupying that structure. AS I recall, it was the base for a regional traffic management center with FHP, COJ traffic engineers, TPO and JTA and making up the space. That, and the fact that it was adjacent to the Jacksonville Terminal, Skyway and the proposed Greyhound station, was why that location was selected, was it not. If that area is going to be the hub for rail and other transit modes, then doesn't it make more sense to have these entities nearby rather than in some downtown high-rise?

I'll grant you though, the building design left lots to be desired.

[thelakelander]

Well as a previous MJ post had sowed, JTA was not th eonly agency that woudl occupying that structure. AS I recall, it was the base for a regional traffic management center with FHP, COJ traffic engineers, TPO and JTA and making up the space.

A joint use space can be accommodated into existing infrastructure, especially considering many of these existing urban buildings were originally designed to house a mix of uses and businesses.

That, and the fact that it was adjacent to the Jacksonville Terminal, Skyway and the proposed Greyhound station, was why that location was selected, was it not. If that area is going to be the hub for rail and other transit modes, then doesn't it make more sense to have these entities nearby rather than in some downtown high-rise?

Not for 5 to 10 times the cost on the back of the taxpayer.  Although its always easier doing things with other people's money, being this excessive should be avoided at all costs.  The beautiful thing about the Northbank core's empty buildings is that most are within a block or so of a skyway station.  So, existing space can be utilized, which helps revitalization, preservation and walkability and a built in population of potential skyway riders is created, which promotes transit usage and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.  All of these things happen to be what the current federal administration actually values.  Implementing a plan that responds to these points would set JTA up in a better position of actually landing federal money, if desired.

I'll grant you though, the building design left lots to be desired.

True.  Let's not forget that these guys are looking for "sustainable" projects.  If I've got a ton of requests for federal assistance and I need to eliminate something, this pedestrian hostile thing would be the first to fly into the dumpster. Solid brick walls at ground level in the 21st century?  Wow......

[ChriswUfGator]

The renderings look like a bunker. Which I guess is only appropriate since JTA has declared war on the taxpayers.

[exnewsman]

Wasn't MJ also proposing moving the entire project into the Prime Osborn after the convention moves downtown (assuming it does). As I recall that would unite the various modes much better and free up land for infill. Still seems like the best option.

[thelakelander]

Yes, that concept works better and could happen more rapidly without the office building.  Not only would it reduce the overall cost but it would also free up an additional block at the transportation center for better integrated transit oriented development.

[Jaxson]

What is the JTA vision for local transit other than "Let's kick the can farther down the road for other people to worry about"?

[mbwright]

I say put them downtown, and require use of public transportation.  This might help them realize what is needed for it to work.  Put the savings in the Jacksonville Union Station, and get Amtrak back.  Since this was able to accomodate almost 100 trains per day, it should be pleanty big.  Get the rout to New Orleans re-opened.  This should be a priority. 

[Ocklawaha]

800 West Water

Isn't the Federal Reserve Building vacant or supposed to be vacant soon? That's right in front of the JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL. A branch pedestrian tunnel could connect the whole thing as the LEE ST Viaduct comes down. It's 200,000 sq ft and has two floors, when downtown revival comes along we could easily lease out half of it and make some money for the agency. Moreover since it is a Federal Building, and if the Federales own it, then we could get it FREE AND CLEAR.

If the rail side of the Terminal comes together like I think it will, look for the tracks and a platform or two to run right behind the back wall.

OCKLAWAHA

[urbaknight]

They could team up with the school board for the rest or lease the extra space out (generate revenue) to firms wanting to be near the new courthouse.  With an asking price of $7 million, for double the space needed, that's a bargin over paying $50 million for a new building a mile away from the downtown core.  Btw, also looked up the Furchgott's asking price.  It's $3.2 million for 60,000 square feet of space. Combine that with the abandoned 18,600sf Rosenblum's building across the street (also for sale, last occupied by Wachovia) and it will give them 78,600sf to work with for a fraction of the price of constructing a new structure.  Need more, well the six story Exchange Building next door to it is also vacant and available for sale.  The 63,000sf old Atlantic Bank building could be another option.  It's really a pick of the litter in the Northbank.  Given the sorry state of the Northbank, its foolish to think the private sector will come back and fill up all these spaces like it was decades ago.  Thus, if a public agency needs office space, we should be encouraging them to take advantage of the old Northbank core, like COJ and JEA did.

Exactly what I've losing sleep over thinking about. A few great examples, Social Security and Division of Blind Services are both located in the heart of the sprawl. I have an appointment with the SSA, but the bus doesn't go there. So now I have to be a further burden on my loved ones to get a ride there. And don't even get me started with the DBS. No one they serve can get to the office by driving. I think all social services (with the exception of homeless shelters, they'd be better for the rest of us if they were put in the sprawl)should have an office downtown.

I say we find a way to encourrage them to open offices downtown, so that the people they serve can actually get to their appointments on their own.

I went to the Ed Ball Building this morning where I spoke with someone from the Planning and Developement. And, I found out that there are many different agencies involved. We have to use unity to start a movement or petitions to bring all involved to the table. I'll post more details as I learn them.

If I find a way through the red tape, I hope I can count on all of your support toward this issue.

[Jaxson]

I say put them downtown, and require use of public transportation.  This might help them realize what is needed for it to work.  Put the savings in the Jacksonville Union Station, and get Amtrak back.  Since this was able to accomodate almost 100 trains per day, it should be pleanty big.  Get the rout to New Orleans re-opened.  This should be a priority. 

I totally agree about bringing back Amtrak's Sunset Limited.  Before Katrina hit, I was fortunate to travel on the Sunset Limited to Los Angeles.  It was a great, scenic journey across the nation.

[fsujax]

you know ock, I thought the same thing about the Fed Reserve Building. I cant find anything about it though, I thought I heard or read somewhere they were closing or moving.

[Ocklawaha]

I say put them downtown, and require use of public transportation.  This might help them realize what is needed for it to work.  Put the savings in the Jacksonville Union Station, and get Amtrak back.  Since this was able to accomodate almost 100 trains per day, it should be pleanty big.  Get the rout to New Orleans re-opened.  This should be a priority.  

I totally agree about bringing back Amtrak's Sunset Limited.  Before Katrina hit, I was fortunate to travel on the Sunset Limited to Los Angeles.  It was a great, scenic journey across the nation.

Almost 100? Try OVER 250 daily!

* Largest station south of Washington D.C.
* One time busiest station in the world

* Equal in number of tracks to both Atlanta stations (now gone) + Montgomery + Oklahoma City
  Santa Fe Station, combined.
* Or put another way, LARGER then Oklahoma City Union Station, Tampa Union Station, New Orleans Union
  and Memphis Union Station combined.
* If you wanted to add up Memphis Central Station and Portland (OR) Union Station, you'd still need tracks.
* Worlds largest Railway Express Station
* Between 12-15 Million Passengers a year passed through Jacksonville Terminal.

While it's true that Atlanta might be the railroad center of the South because of the number of railroad companies that entered the city, and interchanged freight there, for most of it's existence Jacksonville trumped Atlanta in Passengers. To give one an idea of the shear volume of traffic that moved through and might move through Jacksonville again, Atlanta's Terminal Station had about 130 employees by 1950, Jacksonville had 1,200. You see we at MJ are not talking about another AMSHACK, we are talking about palatal edifice with obscene potential.  

This might help you visualize what I'm saying:


BIGGER THEN ATLANTA TERMINAL STATION


AND ATLANTA UNION STATION


AND EVEN BIGGER THEN MONTGOMERY UNION STATION - COMBINED!


OR HOW ABOUT OKLAHOMA CITY SANTA FE STATION


AND OKLAHOMA CITY UNION STATION


WITH TAMPA


WITH NEW ORLEANS


AND WITH MEMPHIS UNION THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE!


FINALLY IF YOU COMBINED MEMPHIS CENTRAL STATION


AND PORTLAND, YOU'D STILL NEED 15 MORE TRACKS TO EQUAL JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL!

I'm writing this as a plea to our citizens, and to JTA and the new mayor of Jacksonville, wake up and realize the economic engine that we are sitting on... We OWN the rails in all of Florida, and all we have to do is step up to the plate and claim it. With $1.5 Billion dollars annually spent on tourism in Jacksonville, this isn't peanuts. We could of course sit on our hands and as a conservative "Republican-Tea Party," stronghold continue to bow to pressures from above and claim we just can't support spending on rail..."It's a subsidy."  This is nonsense as every transportation mode is subsidized in some manner or other and to single out rail as our political step child is piltdown thinking.

This isn't a Convention Center, it's a crime against our citizens...

OCKLAWAHA