FDOT Proposing $118 Million For Amtrak/FEC Project

[tufsu1]

Jaxson...nobody is talking about light rail between any Florida cities.

High speed rail amendment in 2000 required connecting the 5 largest urban areas in FL....at the time, people interpreted that as Tampa, Orlando, Plam Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, and Miami.

Connecting Tampa and Orlando was made first because the I-4 widening that took place in the 2000s made it most physically feasible.....it is also a shorter, less expensive segment than orlando to Miami....or Orlando to Jacksonville for that matter

Also keep in mind that the southeast coast already has TriRail from Palm Beach on down that provides an alternative to I-95....I can assure you there is far more vehicular traffic (and congestion) on I-4 between Tampa and Orlando than there is on I-95 from Daytona down to Palm Beach.

[Ocklawaha]

Let's try this again people...


THIS is light rail


THIS ISN'T!

Unless you are insane, you don't plan light rail between ANY cities...


OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

Jaxson - don't feel that you are alone.  Having already received my lesson about light rail vs commuter rail (or whatever the correct terminology is for the trains that will run on the east coast line), I was anxiously awaiting the electronic lashing that you were about to receive.  If you really want to get a rise, start talking about the Riverside "Trolley"!

[JeffreyS]

I like to just say fixed rail transit.

[Jaxson]

I misspoke (or mistyped!)  - I guess that, in the rush to spank me, nobody has an answer to what I was getting at.  Why are we bending over backwards to cater to rail needs along the I-4 corridor when it would benefit more people to shift those federal funds to the I-95 corridor???

[thelakelander]

Simple, more people live along I-4 and in South Florida, where the HSR line is supposed to end.  These places lobbied for this stuff decades ago and Jax stuck its head in the sand.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for being left out of the party.

[Jaxson]

Simple, more people live along I-4 and in South Florida, where the HSR line is supposed to end.  These places lobbied for this stuff decades ago and Jax stuck its head in the sand.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for being left out of the party.

While there are more people along I-4 and in South Florida, I believe that you are most correct about Jacksonville falling asleep at the switch.  Someone could have easily justified the improvement of the rail that could connect Miami with the Northeast Corridor.  Oh, well...

[Ocklawaha]

I misspoke (or mistyped!)  - I guess that, in the rush to spank me, nobody has an answer to what I was getting at.  Why are we bending over backwards to cater to rail needs along the I-4 corridor when it would benefit more people to shift those federal funds to the I-95 corridor???

IMHO - You can sum up the entire Florida HSR project in two words... 

M I C K E Y  M O U S E !

JUST ADD THE MUSIC.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Jaxson - don't feel that you are alone.  Having already received my lesson about light rail vs commuter rail (or whatever the correct terminology is for the trains that will run on the east coast line), I was anxiously awaiting the electronic lashing that you were about to receive.  If you really want to get a rise, start talking about the Riverside "Trolley"!

Here you go Doug!


THIS IS NOT A TROLLEY!  (There REALLY was a streetcar or trolley known as the "PCC," it stood for PRESIDENTS CONFERENCE CAR...  At MJ we call these cheap imitations for what they really are, Potato Chip Trucks dressed to look something like a trolley... HENCE: The ubiquitous "PCT")



THIS IS A TROLLEY CAR!  In fact, just to clear the air... This is a PCC streetcar or PCC Trolley. Believe it or not the "trolley," is not the car itself, rather it is the tiny wheel that rolls along the wire on the end of that pole. Thus if your streetcar OR BUS has a pole with a trolley wheel... it IS a trolley. If it has a pantograph, pole with a wiper, or a diesel exhaust pipe... it is something else.  So are all streetcars trolleys? NO. Are all trolleys streetcars? NO. It's all about that damned little wheel that was once towed behind the car on a long cable...(which by the way, didn't work too good, but it beat mules) that funny little device "trolling behind" which was corrupted into "trolley." It is historically important because we didn't invent the automobile, the train, the ship, or the air ship, BUT the TROLLEY IS PURE AMERICAN.


OH MY GOD! THIS IS A REAL TROLLEY TOO! (Dayton Ohio)


A true trolley wheel and trolley pole.


Pantograph, complete with a zig-zag overhead wire, installed that way to keep the wear even on the wiper surface.


Diesel exhaust pipe.  


Just another of 1000 reasons to make artificial reefs out of our PCT fleet as they retire.  

ANY QUESTIONS?

OCKLAWAHA  

[dougskiles]

Let's not forget that our city leaders have been fighting for a few things - namely an aircraft carrier at Mayport and a deeper port.  I don't follow either story enough to know the details, however, there is probably a good argument that getting each of these would have a greater economic impact on Jacksonville than getting the rail.  Fortunately for us, it appears that we may get the 'corridor' rail service without having to expend much of our political capital.  That would be ideal because, contrary to popular belief, there is not an unlimited supply of federal money.

Let's hope that our next round of leaders will continue the push for the aircraft carrier and the port.  I also hope that we can compliment the Amtrak service by moving the station to where it should be (downtown) and implementing commuter rail service and light rail downtown.

[thelakelander]

Regarding the port, a deeper river won't do much if the rest of the city's transportation network is not good enough to get goods in and out efficiently.  One thing we need to remember is nothing happens in this city in a vaccum.  Besides, fixed mass transit should have been a priority of JTA.  We have other entities to deal with the needs of the port and Navy.  Until MJ got started, it was road construction, BRT or bust.  Those things still make their legs weak but at least conversation and long term planning has started.

[dougskiles]

I'm with you, lakelander.  It all has to happen together.  It's like what we talked about in the recent school thread.  Did the schools drive sprawl or did sprawl weaken the schools?  Doesn't matter so much now because both need to be fixed.  And in the same way that one weakened the other into a downward spiral, they can build each other up as well.  We need the ecomonic engine and the infrastructure to make it happen.

[spuwho]

I'm with you, lakelander.  It all has to happen together.  It's like what we talked about in the recent school thread.  Did the schools drive sprawl or did sprawl weaken the schools?  Doesn't matter so much now because both need to be fixed.  And in the same way that one weakened the other into a downward spiral, they can build each other up as well.  We need the ecomonic engine and the infrastructure to make it happen.

The concept of "sprawl" which is mentioned often on MJ would be a good thread of discussion apart from this one.

It is tossed around derisively, yet I don't think we have taken the time to hash it out in detail.

To understand it, explain its root causes, it's benefits and demerits would be constructive. Many other cities have reached a perceived "sprawl" limit.  What drove it? Why now, after the suburban expansion post WWII?

[tufsu1]

I misspoke (or mistyped!)  - I guess that, in the rush to spank me, nobody has an answer to what I was getting at.  Why are we bending over backwards to cater to rail needs along the I-4 corridor when it would benefit more people to shift those federal funds to the I-95 corridor???

read my post (#61) again....I explained it

[yapp1850]

can rick scott  tranfer the high speed rail funds to just upgrade amtrak florida instead of disney train.