FDOT Proposing $118 Million For Amtrak/FEC Project

[dougskiles]

Great conversation about the nature of politics.  I am pretty neutral on the HSR issue.  I'm not convinced that is entirely needed, but I also don't see it as the end of the world if it comes.  If anything I am glad to see us try something and learn and move from there.  As the saying goes, it is impossible to steer a parked car.  So as long as we are designing and building rail systems, I feel that eventually we'll learn a few things and get it right.

I often wonder why 'Politics' seems to be such a feared word.  People call it a necessary evil.  I don't see it that way, I see politics as communication between people - particulary people who have differing priorities.  I have never been a part of any group of people that wasn't 'political'.  My family is political.  When we are deciding where to eat lunch, you can see the lobbying take place.  Then you start to see alliances formed so that perhaps next time, one kid will get his/her choice if they support the other kid's choice.  And then ultimately it goes from democracy to dictatorship because the people paying the bill have the final say.

So - it doesn't bother me if the current administration does something to potentially gain favor in Florida.  In fact, I am glad to have their attention.  We would be fools if we don't take advantage of the opportunity.

[tufsu1]

What about "Florida got the award because they had a HSR plan already in the works which they could implement relatively quickly"?

Actually, North Carolina was much further along with their High Speed Rail plan. Unlike Florida, over the past decade they have actually invested in their Raleigh to Charlotte corridor and planned for a high speed connection to Richmond and DC.

NC is much further along in 90-110 mph service....but Florida and California were the only states doing environmental studies for 150+ mph service...and now Amtrak is proposing 150+ upgrades to Acela

[Ocklawaha]

So - it doesn't bother me if the current administration does something to potentially gain favor in Florida.  In fact, I am glad to have their attention.  We would be fools if we don't take advantage of the opportunity.

I too think it's great to have their attention, but I disagree on taking advantage of an opportunity if it means a bad project is built. You wouldn't build a skyscraper with particle board, but that is exactly what Florida has proposed, a system built on NOTHING, and they've convinced most of the State that it's better then the Burj Khalifa. Bad idea.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jaxson]

What about "Florida got the award because they had a HSR plan already in the works which they could implement relatively quickly"?

Actually, North Carolina was much further along with their High Speed Rail plan. Unlike Florida, over the past decade they have actually invested in their Raleigh to Charlotte corridor and planned for a high speed connection to Richmond and DC.

This is why I am a firm proponent of developing our East Coast rail infrastructure.  If we are to improve our rail network, we must think of the big picture.  As a regular Amtrak passenger, I have been impressed by rail efforts that are made by North Carolina and points north.  I immediately think back to the Transcontinental Railroad over a century ago.  President Lincoln, before his assassination, did not aspire to create a short line railroad; he had a greater vision of connecting Americans beyond state lines.  This is, what I am afraid, we are sorely lacking today - vision.

[middleman]

Hi all...

I want to publicly apologize about my smear comment. That was totally out of line. I don't know Lakelander or any of you personally, so how can I possibly know what your motives are? I'll make sure I don't do it again.

I'm just so sensitive to people publicly blaming everything on Obama. So I guess I'm overreacting to comments I hear on the subject. For instance... today I was down in Deland and a women we were talking with was complaining that the cost of bottled water went up and blamed it on Obama. Overall, we are near flat-line inflation, yet if the local Kangaroo raises the price of water, the president is blamed. We quickly walked away before my head exploded.

So... I will still challenge anybody that makes baseless comments aimed at anybody. But I promise not to question the motives.

And with that... this will be my last comment on this board.

[tufsu1]

middleman...nobody took your comments prsonally...please continue to post

[Jdog]

I think passenger rail on the FEC has little to do with the political climate of North Florida.  It seems like the FEC/Amtrak project is being spearheaded by communities south of us.  The track just happens to run through Jax.

This is the one route in the entire nation where just plain knee slapping common sense say's their should be a train, and even most of the Republican's get it.  The benefit to Jacksonville with the restoration of this route and having that station back downtown, EVEN in a temporary trailer, is incalculable.

Fortunately for us, if your going to run a passenger train from anywhere north or west to anywhere in Florida, you MUST pass through JACKSONVILLE. We win by default, riding on our forefathers brilliance.

OCKLAWAHA

Article re: proactive planning (no, not Jacksonville) and some positive benefits of the FEC project for South Florida.  Does Jacksonville commuter rail became more feasible if the FEC project goes through???

Anyway:

_________________________________

With a primary goal of making Jupiter more transit-ready to attract passenger rail service, the town is working on a plan to redevelop the area around Toney Penna Drive.

Though town officials expected rail service to come first from the south in the form of Tri-Rail, AmTrak passenger rail service from the north may be the link to bring a rail line to Jupiter from the south.

Plans have been in the works for at least a decade now to extend Tri-Rail to Jupiter beyond its current northern terminus at 45th Street in West Palm Beach, and possibly on to the Treasure Coast.

One problem is lack of a crossover link for trains to switch from CSX track to the Florida East Coast Railway track corridor running from West Palm Beach to Jacksonville. The FEC line is currently used for freight only.

"Florida lags behind most of the rest of the nation in passenger rail service," said Kim DeLaney, growth management coordinator for the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council. "The state transportation network is dominated by highways."

Funding for the AmTrak line from Jacksonville to Miami International Airport includes money to build a crossover line between the CSX and FEC tracks so Tri-Rail trains could get to Jupiter, and possibly beyond.

"Anything the community can do to make itself more transit-ready will make the project more attractive to federal review agencies," DeLaney said.

The TCRPC has been working with town staff to help develop the plan, DeLaney said.

Town officials identified the Toney Penna Drive area as the most conducive for a train station, but the area needs significant redevelopment to make it "transit-ready."

Last Thursday, residents and business owners were updated on the progress of redevelopment.

"We're not even sure what the status of the timeline of Tri-Rail is these days, but we're operating under the assumption that there is going to be a station at this location," Mayor Karen Golonka said at the workshop.

There's no funding yet for Tri-Rail to extend to Jupiter, but the town is assembling a "game plan" for redevelopment to improve the area even if no rail service comes in the foreseeable future, Golonka said.

The Toney Penna Drive Redevelopment Overlay Area is one of three specific overlay zones that town officials have identified for special incentives.

Overlay zones are alternative land development provisions placed over an existing zoning district, within a specific area of the community.

The other two are Inlet Village and Center Street around North Alternate A1A.

The Toney Penna Drive Redevelopment Overlay Area includes properties fronting Toney Penna Drive between Military Trail and South Old Dixie Highway, the Jupiter Medical Center, all adjacent non-residential properties and properties fronting on South Old Dixie Highway between First Street and Jupiter Lakes Boulevard.

Town officials displayed maps and talked generally about the need to make the area more accessible for pedestrians and vehicles of all sorts.

Widening of Toney Penna is scheduled to begin this fall.

Officials also spoke about potential zoning changes to encourage a mixed-use development that would support the train station.

Town officials also want input and cooperation from residents and business owners of the area.

"The town is trying to stay ahead of the curve," said Dana Little, the TCRPC's urban design director.

Abe Hajjaj, owner of Abe's European Auto, which opened 10 years ago at 342 Toney Penna Drive, said he is still curious to see how redevelopment might affect his auto repair shop.

Beth Kelso, executive director of the Abacoa Property Owners Association, said passenger rail service is still "a hopeful dream at this point." She appreciates the town's efforts, she said.

"I like the whole concept as long as they don't hurt the businesses in that are there," said Kelso, who lives in the Toney Penna area.



http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/may/03/officials-say-road-plans-moving-ahead/

[Ocklawaha]

Article re: proactive planning (no, not Jacksonville) and some positive benefits of the FEC project for South Florida.  Does Jacksonville commuter rail became more feasible if the FEC project goes through???

It would look and operate something like this...

ABSOLUTELY! Amtrak and/or Tri-Rail expansion on the Florida East Coast would equal railroad capacity expansion. Read that as extra long passing sidings, some stretches of double or even triple track, improved signaling, and every crossing gate set for high train speeds. Track speed on the FEC would jump from the current 60 to 90 overnight (...and that track COULD handle much, much, faster trains...yeah, even THOSE fast trains). Perhaps we will see that with a new administration in Tallahassee closing most of the crossings with over/underpasses.

It this thing is green lighted, then our own mobility planners need to jam that Skyway to Atlantic in San Marco as fast as possible.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jdog]

I was hoping you would be the one to reply!  (Everybody has great comments on the forum don't get me wrong). 

Thanks very much!!!

[yapp1850]

hey ock do you think rick scott will approve sunrail and maybee fec,  i really think fec will benefit  miami port,csx/fec tracks connections and tri-rail

[Ocklawaha]

He might have too as he learns the political game of give and take. I understand John Mica has basically put Florida on notice... no money for anything unless they are approved. It's a chance for Scott to learn some horse trading skills, but his newbie status and visions of the presidency might cloud his judgment. If he was very experienced politically I'd say absolutely, but as it is, it's a crap shoot, too close to call on the limited knowledge we have about the governor.

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

i herd john mica said if sunrail is not approve no money for port of miami

[tufsu1]

correct