An Empty Feeling: Inside The Walls Of Downtown

[thelakelander]

Correct. It's laughable to blame FBC in any way on lack of Jacksonville downtown development. They've been downtown since 1800's

Yeah, its hard to pin the blame on FBC for shipyards closing, Adecco and American Heritage heading to the Southside or Barnett Bank being bought out by what is now known as BOA.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Yeah, you need strong leadership, but you also need the population at large to care about downtown. There are a few of us who would love to see something happen downtown, and there are a few on the other side who are of the "DOWNTOWN JAX IS DEAD!!! TEAR IT ALL DOWN!!!" (those are usually T-U posters). Then there are what I think is the majority of people in Jax, who don't care one way or the other but who don't want their tax dollars spent someplace where they don't think it'll do any good. I think it crosses both liberal and conservative lines, young and old.

This happens in some other cities too.  And sometimes all it takes is the right leadership to turn those attitudes around consistently.  There have been incidents where this happened at least temporarily--the Godbold years, from my outside perspective, seemed to get people excited about and believing in downtown for a time, even though some of the plans and/or their execution were misguided/incomplete at best.

I'd agree that your comments correctly express the majority sentiment in Jacksonville, but even those who share those sentiments are often willing to take visitors downtown to see the riverfront or the Landing, or to take the skyline and bridges as a point of pride.  I'm not giving up on the idea that a passion for downtown's success can be rekindled and sustained.  And sometimes it really is darkest before the dawn...Norfolk in the late 90s is an excellent example.

[CS Foltz]

Wacca Pilatka.............I agree with your take on the issue! This administration has no bearing on much due to time constraints so they can not be counted on for much of anything........other than spending more money we don't have! But the next Administration can basically start with a clean slate, excluding budget issue's, if they have a vision of what needs to take place in order to revitalize downtown. No matter who wins, they must have an idea and a vision and the means to fund that vision! To this date, no mayoral candidate has said much and I can understand that........come January that probably will change and all will have something to say about the issue's that all of us are concerned about.............don't expect any of them to have all of the answers, but they must be willing to discuss it, if uniformed, they need to get informed! We as a City can no longer drift around with no clear goal to work towards........we must get focused and we must plan for the future!

[Overstreet]

Correct. It's laughable to blame FBC in any way on lack of Jacksonville downtown development. They've been downtown since 1800's

Yeah, its hard to pin the blame on FBC for shipyards closing, Adecco and American Heritage heading to the Southside or Barnett Bank being bought out by what is now known as BOA.

They also bring several thousand people into down town from the suburbs on a regular basis. The big activity days are of course Sunday and Wedensday but other days have activities.   

[fsujax]

Maybe a new "urban Wal-Mart" would attract people downtown. Seems like the company is going to start expanding in a new way.

http://www.americanbankingnews.com/2010/09/22/wal-mart-nyse-wmt-hopes-to-expand-to-san-francisco/

[thelakelander]

Jax just needs more people in it. Not enough people there.

Sure, downtown needs more people.  However, the reality is that its not going to get them anytime soon.  Thus, the focus in regards to residential, should be connectivity between it and the densely populated residential districts adjacent to it.  Instead of worrying about how to subsidize and attract 10,000 residents in the Northbank, spend less money by better utilizing the +100,000 that already live within a 3 mile radius (or so) around it.

+1,000,000

Just came across this number from an old Brooklyn Park article.  Although this is a five mile radius around Five Point's Publix, it gives you a general idea of the population just outside of downtown that could be an asset if properly connected and utilized.

One of Miles' closest competitors isn't worried a new development would hurt its own business.

The Publix-anchored Riverside Market Square, which is a shopping center about a mile away, has been a significant success since it opened in 2002, according to Sue Harker, a leasing representative for The Sembler Co.

Harker said that the center is completely leased and that the company expects it to stay that way for some time, even if the Miles center offers competition.

"It's a very strong market," she said. "We've been the only player in the game since that center opened, and honestly, I think bringing that in will strengthen the market."

Sembler's research shows 193,018 people within five miles of its center, with an average household income of $48,298.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040507/bus_9063760.shtml

[tayana42]

Riverside Avondale is a vibrant community close to downtown.  JTA is experimenting with the Riverside Trolley (actually just a bus decorated like a trolley....isn't that funny, even JTA recognizes how cool actual trolleys are!) and has said that ridership is insufficient to continue the service. 

So, here is an example of connectivity offered but not utilized in large numbers.   Maybe all of those reading Metro JAx posts should ride the Riverside Trolley once in a while.

[thelakelander]

A PCT is not an example of fixed transit connectivity.  A PCT is actually worse than a bus.  With that said, I'm not saying this form of transit doesn't have its benefits.  However, what I am saying is that it isn't the type of transit mode that has the ability to stimulate the economic development and connectivity desired and needed for a vibrant urban transit and pedestrian friendly atmosphere.

[strider]

To help Lake's Point, JTA recently did away with some bus stops and changed some routes around Springfield.  We lost business at our thrift store because of it.  If it had been fixed rail based, the stops would still be there and so would our business.  The routes and stops of rubber wheeled transit are subject to the whims of JTA so how could rubber wheeled transit ever have a positive impact on commercial development?  Which in my mind translates to never being able to promote a vibrant urban area either.

[tufsu1]

strider....communities have made cuts in fixed route transit....cities like NYC, Philly, and Chicago have closed underutilized stations....fact is, JTA has seen a significant decrease in funding (due to a dip in sales tax revenues)...so some hard choices needed to be made.

[thelakelander]

Riverside Avondale is a vibrant community close to downtown.  JTA is experimenting with the Riverside Trolley (actually just a bus decorated like a trolley....isn't that funny, even JTA recognizes how cool actual trolleys are!) and has said that ridership is insufficient to continue the service.  

So, here is an example of connectivity offered but not utilized in large numbers.   Maybe all of those reading Metro JAx posts should ride the Riverside Trolley once in a while.

Looking at some information on the pros and cons of transit loops and came across this quote concerning a proposed New Haven streetcar system:

New Haven architect Robert Orr applauded Piscitelli for advocating the streetcar, noting that experience in other cities has shown that when an existing bus route gets trolley service, “ridership has gone up as much as 700 percent.” Streetcars, he observed, are “seen as more middle class.”

http://newurbannetwork.com/article/new-haven-plans-streetcar-will-one-way-loop-work-well-13245