An Empty Feeling: Inside The Walls Of Downtown

[fieldafm]

The Boston Common can be clearly seen in this view from the Prudential Observation Deck.  Like Springfield's chain of parks, the Common is bordered by several inner city neighborhoods.  Downtown can be seen in the background, Beacon Hill to the left and Back Bay at the bottom of the graphic.

Interesting
I got bored last night and started organizing photos on my computer and happened across some Boston pics taken from that same Prudential Building and was imagining that same kind of connectivity transformation happening in Jax.

[finehoe]

The local power base has been more concerned about social justice than commercial growth.

Huh?  The local power base has been concerned with enriching suburban landowners and developers.  I don't see how "social justice" flows from that.

[JaxDiablo]

I'm gonna have to side /w Ock on this one.  Coming from Chicago a few years back (which I regret almost every day I'm here, not because of the people, but because of the political climate and general disdain the city has shown for itself on a grand scale), and using the "L" all the time to get to and from work, never owning a vehicle, and monthly paying for a $75 - $85 pass for unlimited transportation that ran most of the day and night.  I really believe we need better public transportation in this city.  I realize it's a daunting task due to the general land mass of the city, but that right there is the reason you should be working towards it.

The "Loop" of Chicago is the 1.16 square miles of area, and it only has approx. 16k people living there full time.  Yes, I realize it's considered "the second largest commercial business district in the United States, after New York City's Midtown Manhattan", according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Loop#Economy. Sounds a little bit like our downtown, short of the second largest commercial area.  It's the fact that so many people come in and out of downtown to work on a daily basis, coming from as far away as Indiana and the far north and west suburbs (approx. 1 - 1 1/2 hours by public transportation).  We need to turn downtown into an accessible entity that can be treated as the center of a wheel, and build up the neighborhoods around it. 

The way that Jacksonville is set up makes this a very reasonable request, we already have numerous neighborhoods around downtown with their own identity.  Downtown already has the buildings and amenities needed to maintain a commercial presence.  We just need to improve the ability to access downtown.  A train line would work wonderfully even if it needed to be elevated like the skyway, or having a train that ran to the downtown bus station /w connecting buses to various points downtown.  And I know there is a prevalent amount of homeless downtown and near the bus station, but I can guarantee you, increase the flow of people into downtown through a train to bus system and you'll see a much more visible police presence in that area, and a diminished amount of homeless.

Ok, that's my rant and suggestions.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Ok, that's my rant and suggestions.

Suggestions?? We'll have none of those here, thank you. 

[heights unknown]

Return to its former glory? It ain't gonna happen, not in our lifetime and possibly not in the future after we're gone either! Change, change, change, in the leaders we choose and the attitude of the leadership, government and citizens is what's needed in order for downtown to even begin to think about returning to its former glory (whatever that was). Why can't we just move ahead with a new way of thinking, make downtown successful, and quit trying to return it to its former glory?

"HU"

[videojon]

Has anyone been to the Jacksonville Landing food court recently? Half of the spots are vacant it seems.

[ChriswUfGator]

What happened tufsu?

You were swearing up and down there was no endemic vacancy problem just a couple months ago...

[Wacca Pilatka]

I'm gonna have to side /w Ock on this one.  Coming from Chicago a few years back (which I regret almost every day I'm here, not because of the people, but because of the political climate and general disdain the city has shown for itself on a grand scale), and using the "L" all the time to get to and from work, never owning a vehicle, and monthly paying for a $75 - $85 pass for unlimited transportation that ran most of the day and night.  I really believe we need better public transportation in this city.  I realize it's a daunting task due to the general land mass of the city, but that right there is the reason you should be working towards it.

The "Loop" of Chicago is the 1.16 square miles of area, and it only has approx. 16k people living there full time.  Yes, I realize it's considered "the second largest commercial business district in the United States, after New York City's Midtown Manhattan", according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Loop#Economy. Sounds a little bit like our downtown, short of the second largest commercial area.  It's the fact that so many people come in and out of downtown to work on a daily basis, coming from as far away as Indiana and the far north and west suburbs (approx. 1 - 1 1/2 hours by public transportation).  We need to turn downtown into an accessible entity that can be treated as the center of a wheel, and build up the neighborhoods around it. 

The way that Jacksonville is set up makes this a very reasonable request, we already have numerous neighborhoods around downtown with their own identity.  Downtown already has the buildings and amenities needed to maintain a commercial presence.  We just need to improve the ability to access downtown.  A train line would work wonderfully even if it needed to be elevated like the skyway, or having a train that ran to the downtown bus station /w connecting buses to various points downtown.  And I know there is a prevalent amount of homeless downtown and near the bus station, but I can guarantee you, increase the flow of people into downtown through a train to bus system and you'll see a much more visible police presence in that area, and a diminished amount of homeless.

Ok, that's my rant and suggestions.

I think most people here would be pretty much with you on all of this.

[Singejoufflue]

JaxDiablo, I am right along side you.  In Chicago, you find people willing to trade their time for a car and reduced transportation expenses.  Certainly, using a bus or train takes longer (usually) than driving. (It takes me about the same amount of time to go equal distance here as it did in Chicago, but would be a 15 minute drive...) 

Aside from the challenges with lack of vision at JTA, how do we convince Jacksonville's commuters increased travel time on public transit is worthwhile?

[Captain Zissou]

This is depressing.  If this is the case, why are rents not dirt cheap in these buildings?  Oh yeah, because they're positive that Goldman Sachs is going to relocate all of their staff to downtown Jax and pay top dollar.  I forgot.

[Bativac]

This is depressing.  If this is the case, why are rents not dirt cheap in these buildings?  Oh yeah, because they're positive that Goldman Sachs is going to relocate all of their staff to downtown Jax and pay top dollar.  I forgot.

Jacksonville is very strange in that regard. It seems landlords are unwilling to negotiate lower rents or property improvements, despite the fact that opening a business downtown nowadays is a lot like opening a snow cone hut in the middle of a desert.

[JaxDiablo]

Aside from the challenges with lack of vision at JTA, how do we convince Jacksonville's commuters increased travel time on public transit is worthwhile?

I'll happily answer this at least coming from my own personal experiences and opinions. 

I think numerous things could be done to promote this.  Have the city buy up the majority of the land which is used for the questionable parking lots and use them for mini-bus depots.  We already know they're in prime locations around downtown, why not use them to make it more convenient than having to drive, and potentially get a ticket instead of paying $1.75 to get to work each day or by using a monthly pass.

Promote the potential swelling of jobs that it would generate.  Drivers, maintenance, mechanics, various office people for the management of the hubs/depots.  Also take into account (if I'm not mistaken), we have or had a motor vehicle production plant in the Jacksonville area.  Why not make this a win/win.  Entice a bus building company to move into the building, build our fleet of buses, and then the company should get a huge tax breaks to bring all those jobs to jax, and then it takes care of our buses as well.

They're starting to put bus lanes in around Jacksonville and my area on the west side.  If they did something like that downtown they could kill one side of the lane they use for parking downtown.  Use it for a bus lane, and we could tout the fact that it's shorter travel time since people would have a dedicated lane for just their mode of transportation to work.

I'm starting to sound like the Ock of mass transit... lol

[tufsu1]

What happened tufsu?

You were swearing up and down there was no endemic vacancy problem just a couple months ago...

not quite...in fact, I surmised at the time that downtown may have experienced as much as a 25% drop in total workers since 2009, when there were an estimated 18,000 in the northbank core.

but perhaps you should read what Jim Bailey said the other night....something about it not being just a downtown problem and that vacancy is up all over town (and the country for that matter).

also, I still haven't found any data supporting your claim of only 7,000 people working downtown.

[elr]

stephendare
Today at 08:37:49 AM
How do you go from 81 thousand full time workers in the compact downtown of 1981 to 7 or 8 thousand in 2010...And weve spent billions of dollars to do it.

WOW... thats amazing. And it's not like the industries that were here collapsed, like in Detroit... they just moved on to greener pastures. Just moved here, still wrapping my head around this city. Are there any good histories you'd recommend - of the urban planning decisions made?

I'm sure there's a complicated list of how this all happened. Part of me wonders if the construction of new roads, and incorporation of all of the county into the metro area spread the population too thin, leading to a loss of critical mass in the center. I also wonder if part of the move to Southside is flight from some of the predominantly african american neighborhoods that also have higher crime rates. Still not quite sure where those are, but biking around the Shands area I have noticed the neighborhood looks a bit rough, and have had some interesting interactions as I ride from riverside north towards Rt. 10.

Anyways, curious to learn more. Do you guys ever meet up at a coffee shop or anything to discuss?

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

you can usually find some affable and reasonably knowledgable conversationalists at three layers (which is one ov the reasons you'll never see me there).