Bill moves Shipyards closure closer

[fieldafm]

Via Times Union

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-07-29/story/bill-moves-shipyards-closure-closer

By Matt Galnor
Jacksonville has long planned on getting 44 acres of riverfront property once the twice-failed Shipyards project emerges from bankruptcy court.

A bill filed in the City Council this week would legally get the city in line to take over the property, likely in August or September.

The bill would allow the city to assume contracts developers LandMar and NorthBank LLC had for the property, including the stormwater and drainage permits needed if the property would have been developed, said Deputy General Counsel John Germany, who is handling the bankruptcy case.

The bankruptcy plan for Crescent Resources, LandMar's parent company, was approved by federal courts in June. Once the council passes this bill, the city should get the deeds to the property in a couple of weeks, Germany said.

The council is expected to vote on the bill next month.

The project dates back a decade, when original developers TriLegacy Group planned an $860 million project with condos, hotels and boat slips.

Work stalled, the city accused TriLegacy of misusing the money, but the company was cleared of criminal wrongdoing by state and federal grand juries.

The city agreed in 2005 to have LandMar develop the property and make public improvements on the land. When the housing market collapsed in 2008, Crescent filed for bankruptcy.

[fieldafm]

I just don't see the economic viability of a major ship repair business back downtown.
Most of those types of companies are now based overseas.

We have Acme that does mostly private vessels, but without government ships I don't think even North Florida Shipyards and Atlantic Marine would be viable here.

What is your basis for having the shipyards site open back up as shipyards?

That public pier intrigues me so much.  I stare at it Saturday and Sunday mornings on my bikerides downtown.
I am also intrigued about the Tampa project you guys posted a few weeks ago whereas their TOD-type development project was broken down into smaller parcels with multiple developers.  Can't recall the name offhand..

[ChriswUfGator]

I just don't see the economic viability of a major ship repair business back downtown.
Most of those types of companies are now based overseas.

We have Acme that does mostly private vessels, but without government ships I don't think even North Florida Shipyards and Atlantic Marine would be viable here.

What is your basis for having the shipyards site open back up as shipyards?

That public pier intrigues me so much.  I stare at it Saturday and Sunday mornings on my bikerides downtown.
I am also intrigued about the Tampa project you guys posted a few weeks ago whereas their TOD-type development project was broken down into smaller parcels with multiple developers.  Can't recall the name offhand..

I never noticed until now, but I've been in Tampa the last few days and they have very active shipyards downtown that contribute to their local economy. Also very neat to look at. I'm about to go tour a WWII liberty ship for fun, despite all the people who argued that nobody would want to see the Charles F. Adams if it were in Jacksonville. Believe it or not museum ships are a big tourist draw.

But I think what Stephen is envisioning is probably a re-born waterfront more of a commercial vs. industrial nature.

[heights unknown]

Yeah; living in West Central Florida and traveling to Tampa at least once a week, Tampa does seem to have a busy, working and successful industrialized waterfront shipyard near downtown.  Don't know what Jax is so scared of.  It appears that the leaders in Jax have no initiative, aggressiveness or fortitude for anything "development wise," especially for the St. John's River Waterfront and the old Shipyards district. The Riverwalk is good, but there needs to be much more; Jax seems to just not want to utilize the St. Johns in a way that will benefit the City and downtown. Old Navy Ships, or recently retired Navy ships are in fact a "good" tourist draw...I wouldn't say great but it is good for a City with naval, maritime and a seafaring history.

"HU"

[tufsu1]

The port funtions in Tampa are across Garison Channel from Channelside and over a mile from the core of downtown....siumilar to the port function we ahve near the stadium.

[thelakelander]

I just don't see the economic viability of a major ship repair business back downtown.
Most of those types of companies are now based overseas.

We have Acme that does mostly private vessels, but without government ships I don't think even North Florida Shipyards and Atlantic Marine would be viable here.

What is your basis for having the shipyards site open back up as shipyards?

It's something we're still fleshing out but our discussion was more about a "working waterfront" that included a mix of public space, seafood restaurants, markets and spots where the local commercial fishing industry could possibly operate and sell their goods wholesale.  Something along the lines of a "fisherman's wharf" type of atmosphere that would benefit/expose local industry, include public spaces (like a pier) and promote local culture.

[fieldafm]

The port funtions in Tampa are across Garison Channel from Channelside and over a mile from the core of downtown....siumilar to the port function we ahve near the stadium.

Agreed, if the St Johns didn't wind around like it does, we're no different than Tampa in that sense.

It's something we're still fleshing out but our discussion was more about a "working waterfront" that included a mix of public space, seafood restaurants, markets and spots where the local commercial fishing industry could possibly operate and sell their goods wholesale.  Something along the lines of a "fisherman's wharf" type of atmosphere that would benefit/expose local industry, include public spaces (like a pier) and promote local culture.

Interesting.
One night when I couldn't sleep I did make a rendering of what I thought would be a nice representation of what the public pier could look like.

Although, it certainly would increase fuel costs for the fisherman/shrimpers... if JaxPort ultimately decides on a Mayport-based cruise terminal, this space could potentially be an alternative solution to the fisheries in Mayport that would tie in to your fisherman wharf-type ideas, no?

[JSquared]

I just don't see the economic viability of a major ship repair business back downtown.
Most of those types of companies are now based overseas.

We have Acme that does mostly private vessels, but without government ships I don't think even North Florida Shipyards and Atlantic Marine would be viable here.

What is your basis for having the shipyards site open back up as shipyards?

It's something we're still fleshing out but our discussion was more about a "working waterfront" that included a mix of public space, seafood restaurants, markets and spots where the local commercial fishing industry could possibly operate and sell their goods wholesale.  Something along the lines of a "fisherman's wharf" type of atmosphere that would benefit/expose local industry, include public spaces (like a pier) and promote local culture.

I think this is a fantastic idea.  Now if only there was some way to pick up the Landing and rotate it 180 degrees...

[ac]

^Might be an easier feat than getting the City to sell the land underneath to Sleiman so he will remodel it and open it up to Laura St.

[Ocklawaha]

The boats don't all go to sea, a commercial fishing industry exists on the river, and the crabbers are quite a vibrant local industry with boats in almost every marina from Mayport to Lake Harney. THESE are the boats and fishermen I would target + deep sea charters which could charge extra for the travel miles to the mouth of the river. Commercial shrimpers and other fishery industry boats on the sea would scoff at the costs of such a thing.

While we envision a quaint wharf type of place it sure as hell wouldn't hurt to invite some interesting retail to the party, such as Bass Pro, Ikea, or a cool theater complex. Moreover it would make for a GREAT eastern destination anchor for our fumbling Skyway... Just saying.

JUST ADD SKYWAY and tie in STREETCAR!


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

The boats don't all go to sea, a commercial fishing industry exists on the river, and the crabbers are quite a vibrant local industry with boats in almost every marina from Mayport to Lake Harney. THESE are the boats and fishermen I would target

We were thinking along those lines.  For example, a good portion of the river, immediately south of the Fuller Warren, is loaded with commercial crab traps.  One would think downtown would also be a viable option for the pleasure boating industry (ex. take a drive down Lake Shore Blvd, along the Ortega River), assuming the right facilities were made available there.  Again, we were just brainstorming so a lot more research and exploration into the topic will be needed.

[fieldafm]

I guess I don't quite understand the total vision as you describe it... I thought I did, but once you started to focus on St Johns crabs(which are abundant, and whenever I visit friends in California they all want me to bring Jacksonville crabs with me) instead of the abundance of fresh grouper, snapper, trigger, oysters, and shrimp off our coast I kinda got confused.

[north miami]

Pleased to see these discussions swing away from visions of giant retail and housing.
The past ten years have proven a sacred catastrophe for us- the ShipYards can now be considered in a different era and outlook.

Hopefully more of an active public open space with wharves,perhaps meander some shore line, and semi working waterfront .(Not large scale water depndent vessel service,haul outs)

[coredumped]

I vote for a convention center with a hotel on top or connected. Expand the skyway to go into/through it. It would be really awesome if we had a huge convention center there (is there enough room for "huge?) all along the water.

[jcjohnpaint]

I would love to see a convention center there as well.  I really think the skyway should go through there and to the sports complex district.