Bill moves Shipyards closure closer

[Ocklawaha]

This is why it is so damn important to FINISH what we start. Had the Skyway followed it's plan we wouldn't be having this conversation today. In the bigger picture of the unfinished monorail, the shipyards would probably be developed already. Going through a hotel or a Convention Center would kick the Skyway into high gear.

When Streetcar starts, it very much needs to go ALL THE WAY to Park and King at a minimum. I still feel it foolish to duplicate ANY PART of the original planned Skyway route with Streetcar. This does not mean that both systems could serve the same end points for example, Shand's, Blue Cross/Fidelity/Everbank, Stadium/Randolph or even San Marco - Atlantic at the FEC RR. But there are hundreds of combination's of streets and routes that each system could take.

This is my goal in my original figure "8" downtown system, with the "8" being available for either two independent loops, or as a whole circulatory route. The features are thus:

Water-Independence, COVERED 100%
Newnan, COVERED Independence - 1st. (Hubbard)
Beaver east of Newnan, COVERED including private right of way and access to Gateway Mall.
Randolph, COVERED Beaver to Duval
Duval, COVERED Randolph to Lee INCLUDES Cathedral district, City Hall, Hemming Plaza, Federal Court House, New Court House.
LEE COVERED  Duval to Water Street

With this core it would be easy to expand in any direction.


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

I understand your ire as well as the figure 8 concept Ock! My idea was clover leaf but I bow to your superior knowledge!! Either way, as an "Intermodal Mass Transit System" all aspects of mass transit, including foot and bike, should be addressed, which is why I take exception to the proposed BRT escapade! BRT is localized, following Skyway route and its path. Nothing has been done to increase ridership on either system and here we go again.......off half cocked! Both will fail in their present mode or we will have to subsidize even further than what we do now. JTA seems to have bus, just as good as rail, foremost in their minds and the current bus system is severly lacking in simple things such as "Shelters", decent headways that possible riders could use to trip plan and pollution spewing machinery that does air quality no good what so ever! We have bus stops, that consist of a pole with a sign and plenty of places bus's can not even get off of the road to allow traffic to pass! Something is wrong here and JTA just does not see it!

[stjr]

As for the skyway extension to the stadium, from a financial standpoint, it would seem to me that we would be better off initially investing in mass transit that extends to areas outside of the downtown district.  This way, once some form of mass transit is extended to the stadium, the entire downtown network could be feed with transit riders who won't have to fight miles congestion into downtown, only to park in a garage and ride the skyway or a streetcar for the last few hundred feet.

Lake, I don't want to make this into another Skyway discussion, but I can't help but note that I have made this same point about one of the reasons the Skyway is lacking.  Glad to see you post similar feelings here.  For more on the Skyway, I refer interested parties to see both sides of the discussion on MJ threads devoted to it elsewhere.

[Noone]

The bill is 2010-604 and it will be in RCD Monday and Finance Tues.Also there will be a public hearing. Everyone should be calling the Mayor and city council members and telling them to attach an amendment that when this comes to the council vote that the 680' PUBLIC PIER will be separate from the 44 acre land. Keep score on how they vote.

If not the Public Trust in this community will continue to be completely destroyed. Shipyards was a disaster. Everyone needs to remember that out of the 44 acres 16 acres was to be Public Space. When Landmar took over the 16 acres of Public Space was reduced to 8 acres. The walkable area is primarily the Public Space. Landmar also had legislatively included in the deal to be able to shut down the 8 acres of walkable Public Space 12 times during the coarse of the year. Example Florida Georgia. Would that have been a good deal for the Public? NO. Absolutely not. But that was the plan. Here's another-Under Landmar 150 slip marina without one slip for the Public. That was the plan.

We are getting this entire 44 acre site back. Not skill just dumb luck. What is the plan?

One option is to ask the council to include an amendment that when approved that the 680' PROMISED PUBLIC PIER can be separate and move forward for the people of Jacksonville as a usable structure for economic opportunity and Public Access.

In a few months Jacksonville will be hosting a River Summit. Can you imagine our new slogan "VISIT JACKSONVILLE where we will continue to restrict your access to the St. Johns River our American Heritage River especially in our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District 2003-627".

Put that on a bus shelter.

[stjr]

Good idea, Noone.  I actually think the entire property should be a public riverfront park and large gathering venue as stated on another MJ thread devoted to this subject at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html

However, the pier you refer to is a good start.  

[CS Foltz]

stjr............Mr Noone's idea covers not only the pier area, but utilizing shipping containers for various shops! The shipping container idea is pretty good, when you consider how they can be set up, solar power and the like! He has a supplier lined up at no cost, containers being modular could be stackable and poof.....instant attraction!City is looking for revenue enhancement, here is their chance!