Bill moves Shipyards closure closer

[Todd_Parker]

I vote for a convention center with a hotel on top or connected. Expand the skyway to go into/through it. It would be really awesome if we had a huge convention center there (is there enough room for "huge?) all along the water.

I, too, would love to see the Skyway expanded through a downtown hotel and out to the sports complex. It would add ridership and the unique architectural feature would add to the city's identity

[CS Foltz]

Good idea! But we got to get the property back first............I am to the point I will believe it when I see it! I don't trust City Hall any further than I can throw it!

[rjp2008]

Two historic ships - one sailship and another ww ii era - would be fantastic, but wouldn't generate much revenue. What good is maritime museum that is a building?? Tourists would come to see a terrific tall masted beaut I believe - imagine that on the skyline!

A fisher mans market makes complete sense, also. Would it entice people away from their local publix? What has always struck me as odd about the river city is the complete lack of world class, well highlighted seafood joints downtown. I would almost want to entice an Asian company (perhaps Hanjin deal ineterests them) or some kind of seafood cooking school that really knows how to crank out some mean sushi, lobster, clams, etc with that Japanese flavor. The reason suburbanites would go downtown would be to taste the diverse flavor such a market has to offer. Also, get in touch with all those Louisiana shrimpers affected by the spill a and get their butts up here.

[thelakelander]

I guess I don't quite understand the total vision as you describe it... I thought I did, but once you started to focus on St Johns crabs(which are abundant, and whenever I visit friends in California they all want me to bring Jacksonville crabs with me) instead of the abundance of fresh grouper, snapper, trigger, oysters, and shrimp off our coast I kinda got confused.

Right now, you can't get any in downtown, which is insane considering our natural landscape and heritage.  So I would think all would be welcome and encouraged to participate in such a setting.  While throwing ideas over the phone with Stephen the other day, I believe what we had in mind was a site containing a wide variety of maritime related uses integrated with the public realm.

[stjr]

I was on the river south of the Buckman not long ago.  I was surprised that there seemed to be quite a bit fewer crab traps than I recalled in the past.  I think commercial crabbers may be dying breed.  Not many left.  Especially with water access drying up and maybe given the health, or lack thereof, of the river.  Who wants to eat crabs living off dying fish due to poisonous algae and Georgia Pacific dioxins?  Yuuuuck!

And, once again, make a play for a Bay Street streetcar and give up on the Skyway toy saving Downtown Jax.  Ain't going to happen.

[CS Foltz]

Having any waterfront anything would require cleaning up the St Johns! A TU article the other day indicated that by the time the river gets to Jacksonville, it is allready polluted. Granted with all of the runoff containing, who the heck knows what, and algea blooms accuring on a regular basis, the river is not in the best of health to start with so........lets take more water upstream out! I don't see anyone in Orlando worrying about the rivers health and they are more concerned about having water to put on their lawns! Waterfront attractions are a good idea, but river needs work big time!

[Seraphs]

These ideas sound great!  If we could get the skyway along the shipyards, it would make sense to go on to Everbank Field.  This would be true connectivity.

[rjp2008]

MOONEYHAN ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX!!! DO IT!

[CS Foltz]

It would take 4 or 5 more studies before anything could even be talked about! Honest! I wonder what those are gonna cost us?

[Ocklawaha]

Two historic ships - one sailship and another ww ii era - would be fantastic, but wouldn't generate much revenue. What good is maritime museum that is a building?? Tourists would come to see a terrific tall masted beaut I believe - imagine that on the skyline!

A fisher mans market makes complete sense, also. Would it entice people away from their local publix? What has always struck me as odd about the river city is the complete lack of world class, well highlighted seafood joints downtown. I would almost want to entice an Asian company (perhaps Hanjin deal ineterests them) or some kind of seafood cooking school that really knows how to crank out some mean sushi, lobster, clams, etc with that Japanese flavor. The reason suburbanites would go downtown would be to taste the diverse flavor such a market has to offer. Also, get in touch with all those Louisiana shrimpers affected by the spill a and get their butts up here.

What makes you think a ship museum or two ships for that matter would not become a major attraction? Did you know that the USS Missouri for example is among the top 10 attractions in Hawaii. The museum - ship has accounted for 12% of the entire state's tourism since 1998. In July of 2009 she had just shy of 50,000 visitors, at $20.00 each.

By the way boys, at last check both the BATTLESHIP IOWA and the aircraft carrier INDEPENDENCE were both available for museum purposes.

Japanese seafood? Okay, maybe for some of you but frankly being a unreconstructed Confederate, I would much rather have local dishes. If I want to eat a raw dead fish, 6 mile creek is in back of my house!


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Just for the sake of arguement...........if the $kyway were extended, it went through a Hotel situated along its route and happen to continue on to the Stadium................makes sense to me! That possible route could also be running through the Ship Yards property at ground level and then elevate to reach the Stadium end. Couple of different way to do it...........one possible obstacle would be funding! A special tax district for the route or bonds ............either way, we must bring the issue to a boil or like usual, nothing will happen! If we can't get rail into operation (thanks JTA!) This maybe an option!

[thelakelander]

The problem would be that we can't support another major hotel.  Just a few months ago, even the Hyatt (that we subsidized significantly to bring in) was behind on their mortgage payments.  As for the skyway extension to the stadium, from a financial standpoint, it would seem to me that we would be better off initially investing in mass transit that extends to areas outside of the downtown district.  This way, once some form of mass transit is extended to the stadium, the entire downtown network could be feed with transit riders who won't have to fight miles congestion into downtown, only to park in a garage and ride the skyway or a streetcar for the last few hundred feet.

[CS Foltz]

lake I have no choice but to agree! Excluding JTA's picture of mass transit would be a good first step! Until we have a variant of rail, in any form, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past! I keep trying to envision an intermodal system that uses what we have, before we start branching out. With a downtown network in place, branching out into the burbs would be the next step, but we have to start somewhere! Downtown is the reasonable point of start and for the size considered should not be that expensive! The $12 Million discussed for the BRT system should have been the start, but what do I know!

[tufsu1]

Ron Littlepage in today's T-U

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400564/ron-littlepage/2010-07-31/jacksonville%E2%80%99s-losses%E2%80%99-shipyards-oft-repeated-myth

[buckethead]

The blog sounds like fluff to me. Bankrupt LandMar owes one gazilllion dollars. There doesn't sound like much real money coming to the city from that.

Improvements made to the property while nice (and quite costly), still do not increase the value of the property to the level of debt.

Fuzzy math?