Park View Inn construction?

[thelakelander]

Just to clear up any confusion, the proposal is to convert a portion of the structure into retail use.  To serve the retail spaces, the structure's existing parking garage will remain intact.  Although this Jax Beach project is a much smaller scale, it serves as an example of what the owner believes may be feasible for the Park View Inn (minus the hotel tower, which would still be demolished).


This retail center in Jax Beach is now complete.  Parking for the stores is located on the center's roof.





^This is basically the owner's new proposal for the portion of the old hotel that isn't demolished.  Given the high traffic count at that intersection and the lack of retail in the area, he may have a very feasible project on his hands.  Let's hope they can finally pull something off.

[9a is my backyard]

^ Thanks for clarifying Lake.  Do you know about what the proposed square footage of Park View would be?

I think I'm getting the retail and residential markets downtown confused.  Judging by 11E and the Carling, the residential market downtown doesn't look great.  What's the retail market like?  Looking at situations like the Landing; does the demand exist and it's just a matter of getting the details in order (ie, meeting parking requirements) to attract retailers?

[urbanlibertarian]

Could they accommodate a drive-thru on the concrete foundation of the part that will be demoed?  You know, for a pharmacy or coffee shop?

[tufsu1]

Lake, in order for retail to work, there needs to be other retail, and GASP, people near the retail. This location has neither.

mtrain...one of the main questions many retailers have is "what is the adjacent traffic volume"...believe me, this site can work just fine for uses like drug stores, banks, fast food, etc.  

[thelakelander]

Could they accommodate a drive-thru on the concrete foundation of the part that will be demoed?  You know, for a pharmacy or coffee shop?

There's already a drive thru where the old lobby used to be.  So if that were a desire of a perspective tenant, I assume that could be preserved in some fashion.

[thelakelander]

^ Thanks for clarifying Lake.  Do you know about what the proposed square footage of Park View would be?

Its hard to tell without knowing the exact details or proposed second floor parking configuration (this is where the pool and interior courtyard are currently located).  However, using Google Earth for measuring, it could be anywhere from 15,000 to 30,000sf of retail space.  That old lobby/conference room area looks to be close to having a 10,000sf footprint.  That box may be a perfect fit for the type of space typical pharmacies tend to look for.

I think I'm getting the retail and residential markets downtown confused.  Judging by 11E and the Carling, the residential market downtown doesn't look great.  What's the retail market like?  Looking at situations like the Landing; does the demand exist and it's just a matter of getting the details in order (ie, meeting parking requirements) to attract retailers?

The actual market is much larger than downtown and what DVI claims it to be.  DT is really just a central neighborhood in a larger urban core area that includes adjacent neighborhoods like Springfield, Eastside, Durkeeville and Brooklyn.  Within a five mile radius of the area, you probably have 150-200k residents.  So the real market is closer to that then the 2k residents typically mentioned as living in the Northbank. State & Union are centralized enough and easily accessible to pull traffic from each specific district, as well as people on their way over the Matthews Bridge or to I-95.  

So, demand is there.  However, you still have to make sure your project has the necessary essentials (ex. parking, visibility, feasible leasing rates, etc.) to attract and keep tenants.

[Timkin]

So,,,,If I am understanding this correctly...the 4 story stripped out portion of the structure,  plus the lovely green and trash-filled swimming pool will go byebye?  and renovation of the remainer of the structure?.

If it sees renovation , fine.  I hope retail will work there...  it is in such a Sketchy area of town, Im not sure about the level of success it will see. But if they actually renovate and tear down the 4 story portion of it,  I guess I can live with it.

[fieldafm]

Most new Walgreens stores being built today are around 14k sq ft and most of the new CVS stores being built today are around 13k sq ft.  Typically they require parking for b/w 50-70 cars and drive thru access.

This corner(remember this is an intersection located on two main thoroughfares) hits pretty much every traffic characteristic needed for these model stores.

That being said, a 9k square foot floor plan would fit JUST fine in this space.  I posted a pic of a Rite Aid 9k sq ft parcel that would work just fine.

Dunkin Donuts would also be a prime candidate based on traffic count numbers(or as a part of the new BP station).

Lake is absolutely right, you can't just look at the residential population... in addition to the 2k or so residents downtown(and whatever the resident count is in the Springfield Historic District), theres another under 50k or so working population downtown... and plenty of traffic during peak hours from residents going to and from work feeding to/from the Matthews Bridge.

The potential for a very contributory business is 100% there, now its a case of getting the dollars to make sense.

[fieldafm]

The Urbana development Lake posted in Jax Beach is very nice.  This was a corner that sat derilic for many years and is now a tremendously attractive multi-use space that encourages pedestrian activity and does not clog up parking in an area where parking is limited.  On a side note, anyone ever notice that even with space restrictions that any of the beaches do not have parking meters in their 'core'?  Imagine that 

Anyway,
Imagine the Park View space looking something like a multi-use structure anchored by a pharmacy(something that is needed downtown IMO) like this...





Do you see how attractive that corner could be?  The traffic count, need, and population is there... now its a matter of economics.

[thelakelander]

^Great points. 

[buckethead]

Agreed^ Jax Beach has come a long way.

A clean user friendly transit option should also connect the (theoretical) new convention center dirctly to downtown Jax Bch. Obviously not monorail. I'd feel more comfortable letting our resident experts decide the appropriate mode, but I'm certain an easy trip to the beach could woo businesses who are attending conventions. This is but a possible side effect of providing a connector from DT to the Beaches. Beachers could also enjoy the ammenities and employment opportunities of downtown more easily.

I'm at the beaches, so I may be biased.

[Timkin]

I am coming around to understanding your viewpoints.  Again Im asking... Is the Hotel itself being demolished and just the parking garage and lobby spared?? I guess i am confused as to exactly the plan there. 

Fieldafm... I love that rendering... something like that , or some similar construction would be AMAZING to replace the eyesore we presently endure every day.    What is sad is that the Origonal Heart of Jax picture I saw of the Hotel was SO COOL looking !  its such a shame that this "renovation" to the current design took place... Even trying to imagine it in "good" shape , It simply is NOT attractive in its current design.

[thelakelander]

From my understanding of the proposal, the base of the hotel will stay.  This part contains the garage, lobby and meeting rooms.  The hotel tower portion would be demolished.  The base would then be renovated and converted into retail space and the garage would serve those retail uses.

[Timkin]

Ok.. got it now.   Wish I could be the one to bring the Hotel down   I really hope this plan comes to life.  You guys have vision I only wish I had by comparison.  But I guess my heart throb,,,and this is no secret , is School #4.   IF I live to see this baby have new life breathed into it, I would die a happy man

[Debbie Thompson]

- All for adaptive reuse.  I liked the work-force condo idea that floated a couple of years back.
- Not too happy knowing the City Council is going to figure out where else to spend the demo money BEFORE we know if the reuse plan will work.  What if this falls through again, like all the other plans, only now the money that was going to demo this eyesore has been diverted elsewhere and we are stuck with it again.
- The current plans I saw for Hogan's Creek is that this corner will be a traffic circle/gateway to Springfield/tie in Confederate Park, so I don't think the long term plan was to have another vacant lot.  That said, I'd be more interested in adaptive reuse.
- Miss Fixit, I attended functions in this hotel during my high school days (sometime in the Cro Magnon era :-) and it was beatiful at one time.