Park View Inn construction?

[geauxtigers31]

To tie it to the actual thread, I think demolishing and building from scratch would be a poor investment choice given the other options available. Reuse is what needs to be explored.

[Sportmotor]

I strongly question the building's integrity. I know from first hand experience that the roof is not saveable and am surprised that the elevator pull system(which was really cool btw) had not fell through yet.
Dunno how bad the fire damage is in it either. Lot of fugie as well, and black mold.

Although the reception area is awesome, so is the deck and pool area.

[thelakelander]

Some of the houses in Springfield were in far worse shape and they have been rehabbed.  The solid concrete skeleton of the building appears to be structurally sound. Other features like the roof and facade would have to be replaced.  However, doing so would be more of a benefit to the area than spending $1.5 million of taxpayer money to demolish it, leaving another abandoned lot on our downtown moonscape.

[Sportmotor]

What would you make it into? The closest surrounding buildings all of which are vacant would not lend itself to another hotel I would not think. Maybe dorms but most who go to the FSCJ go there for certification class or work related.

[iloveionia]

I don't advocate demolition and I don't like abandoned blight.  However, how long will we have to wait to see renovation to Park View?  The owners need to stop flapping their jaws and put their money where their mouth is.  Get the project done. 

Park View in its day (I've only seen pictures,) appeared gorgeous.  I think a parking garage sucks, but if retail, and housing were added, better.  Connection to the college?  Even better.  Park View's location IMHO is prime.  A gateway to Springfield and to Downtown and adjacent to Hogan's Creek and the park.  It may not seem prime at this given moment, but I am a firm believer it will be as this area of Jax continues to improve, albeit slow improvement, improvement nonetheless.

[thelakelander]

What would you make it into? The closest surrounding buildings all of which are vacant would not lend itself to another hotel I would not think. Maybe dorms but most who go to the FSCJ go there for certification class or work related.

I think the owner's idea may be more feasible than all past proposals for the property.  

from article

But by August, owners Robert Van Winkel and David Muyres  had approached the city with a plan to keep much of the existing structure intact to re-purpose the building as mainly a parking garage.

Their proposal is to keep the existing underground parking spaces and turn the second floor into another parking deck. The first-floor space would be converted into storefronts for retail use.

“We want to make use of the viable parts of the building instead of just destroying the whole structure,” Van Winkel said Monday.

link: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-05-03/story/park-view-inn-property-avoids-wrecking-ball

I believe this is a viable use for the building for the following reasons:

1. This corner has one of the highest vehicular traffic counts in DT, which is a major plus for retail.

2. The deck and structure are already in place and reuse will be a ton cheaper than new construction.

3. The parking deck will serve the retail on this block and potentially the Klutho building across the street at Main & Orange.

4. A nice renovation project at this corner will do more for the area than a vacant lot with only the concrete slab remaining.




This front along Ocean could feature street level retail.  That large space on the corner (the old lobby and meeting area) may be large enough for something like a CVS or Walgreens to anchor the retail portion.



The parking deck is already there and accessible from the rear, via Orange Street.  This would be used as the parking requirements for the retail spaces going into the complex.





The driveway/old lobby entrance at Main & State would be a nice spot for a courtyard/open plaza with outdoor seating.  Retail opening this space would be idea for a restaurant or something that can take advantage of the high traffic exposure on the corner.  An outdoor plaza would also be a great entry feature for Springfield. Along with the gas station & restaurant planned across the street, these two projects would combine to play a huge role in enhancing the pedestrian connection between DT & Springfield.  These projects could also lead to additional development at the corner or FSCJ opening up their campus across the street.

Will all these things happen?  At this point, I can't say.  However, taking down the old tower and restoring the base of the structure at least makes this a possibility.  Tearing it and waiting for new construction to get financed on that block in the middle of an economic recession does not.

[thelakelander]

I don't advocate demolition and I don't like abandoned blight.  However, how long will we have to wait to see renovation to Park View?  The owners need to stop flapping their jaws and put their money where their mouth is.  Get the project done.

This is easier said when an individual is not putting up the money to fund such a renovation or tear down.  I don't know the owner's financial status but I do have direct experience with the site's problems.  When I moved to Jax, this was the site of one of my first architectural projects in town.  At the time, the client had an option to purchase the property with plans to demolish the hotel and construct a +20 story condo tower with street level retail and a Walgreens in its place.  That project, like many after it, died due to environmental issues surrounding the site and the nearby creek.

My guess is this has had a direct impact on nothing happening with the property over the last decade.  From what I've been hearing over the last few years, it seems like this latest plan is quite doable.  Anyway, I guess only time will tell.  However, as a taxpayer, I'd rather see this guy get tax breaks to get this off the ground than using $1.5 million to tear down private property.  Imo, $1.5 million in public money would be better used in many other ways.

[fieldafm]

This is a Rite Aid integrated into a building on the campus of the University of Charleston.  This EXACT floorplan can be accomodated into the footprint of the Park View Inn under the proposed modifications being presented by the present owners.  Obviously, the facade of this particular picture would need to be adapted to be more visible... however, the traffic count on this corner would rival the top 35% of existing traffic counts from drug stores(CVS, Walgreens, etc) currently in the city(certainly not the top 10, but a VERY reasonable amount).  Additionally, the working and living population is WELL within this type of store's requirement.  Furthermore this would serve a very big need for both DT and Springfield.

The comment about the COPS show is very true.  Its time for that to change!



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[9a is my backyard]

However, as a taxpayer, I'd rather see this guy get tax breaks to get this off the ground than using $1.5 million to tear down private property.  Imo, $1.5 million in public money would be better used in many other ways.

While I agree wholeheartedly, the current situation with 11E/The Carling tempers my enthusiasm a bit.  Tax breaks aren't guaranteed stimulus, however if someone has plans ready to go and some financing lined up, tax breaks can certainly provide the extra push necessary. 

That said, what are the odds that, a few years down the line, they'll need more breaks from the taxpayer to keep the building afloat.  Obviously, 11E/The Carling got loans from the City so it's not an apples to apples comparison, but both situations have government intervention in the market.

Plus, I can't imagine that project coming in under budget, especially if it went out to bid in the current, cutthroat environment.  I'm no rehab expert, but parts of the building just look awful.  Finding something unexpected during construction seems inevitable. 

Either way, it is a great location and would be a great to see part of downtown go from such a negative to a positive.  Are there any plans for the building across Orange St from the Park View (E.T. Thompson Bldg I believe)?

[thelakelander]

^11E/Carling received loans worth more than the cost to renovate the entire Park View, making them hard to compare.  The only thing that looks bad on this building is the cosmetic stuff that will have to be taken down and replaced.  As long as the actual structural integrity of the building is intact, its not going to fall down. 

There were plans to convert the E.T. Thompson Bldg into lofts and retail a few years back.  I believe those plans are on ice, due to the same environmental issues that have plagued the Park View.

[thelakelander]

Smaller building but interesting results.  Under most circumstances, this would have been torn down in Jacksonville.









more images and text: http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/home-garden/85365-modernist-loft-rises-scorched-industrial-complex.html

[konstantconsumer]

those examples are nice, but they aren't located along a 4 lane highway.  state and main make this area so unwalkable.  i don't see how anything could be located there as long as state and union are arranged as they are.  were i mayor, my first action to save downtown/springfield would be to make both of those roads two way, encourage enforcing the speed limit strictly, and unsync the stoplights so that people can't blaze though main, ocean, state and union.

[TheProfessor]

The parkview inn doesn't have the best view of the park, needs to be a couple more stories, but I suppose there will be no residential components of the renovation.

[thelakelander]

those examples are nice, but they aren't located along a 4 lane highway.

state and main make this area so unwalkable.  i don't see how anything could be located there as long as state and union are arranged as they are.  were i mayor, my first action to save downtown/springfield would be to make both of those roads two way, encourage enforcing the speed limit strictly, and unsync the stoplights so that people can't blaze though main, ocean, state and union.

Go to any city of significant size and you'll find a couple of streets like State & Main running through the urban core.  The major thing that makes them unwalkable is the fact there is nothing pedestrian oriented lining them.  Having them lined with development that encourages walkability can have a significant impact on the perceived environment.

DC


Louisville


Baltimore


Nashville


White Plains, NY


Atlanta


Chicago


Indianapolis


Columbus


Also, I think the strongest case for improving walkability is the north/south connection between Springfield and Downtown.  Having development on these corners that embrace and encourage foot traffic will go a long way into improving current conditions in those areas.

[thelakelander]

The parkview inn doesn't have the best view of the park, needs to be a couple more stories, but I suppose there will be no residential components of the renovation.

Correct, there are no residential components.  While one can assume that the streetscape on that entire block would be improved as a part of any redevelopment plan, it would be nice if FSCJ could be convinced to improve their frontage on the stretch of Main, between State and Hogans Creek.

FSCJ at Main & Orange Streets.


Imagine if the wall blocking Orange Street were removed and their central pedestrian corridor were extended one block to Main.  DVI and the JEDC should really look into a plan that improves street level connectivity with the uses already in place.  DT may have more foot traffic than all of us believe right now.