JTA is getting fed money!

[Jason]

I hope not.  The signage can help fun the shelters we already have and the rest of the money can be used for more shelters.

[kells904]

I still don't get what the big deal is about bus shelter signage and no signage.  I personally don't care what's on them because I don't suddenly want a bag of Doritos just because I saw an ad for them while I was walking by a bus stop.  I've been in some very "liberal" countries and not once have I seen a shelter that could be deemed inapporopriate.  This to me is an element of what I've been calling a Mayberry Mentality, and a reason to make much ado about nothing.

I know this signage stuff has been discussed at length on another thread, so sorry about my mini-rant.  But it's a part of the idea of JTA spending this grant money on something useful, like what Jason suggested.  I just expect them to waste it because they've proven time and again that they're stupid.

[stjr]

I still don't get what the big deal is about bus shelter signage and no signage.  

Kells. the reason there is a full thread on bus shelter signage is the story isn't as simple as it looks.  See all sides at the thread and then draw your conclusions.

The #1 issue is that allowing signage on bus shelters may endanger our city's decades old ban on new billboards.  Other issues include the exercise of JTA's famous slight of hand with facts and figures and some conflicts of interest among decision makers and consulting attorneys (what else is new in Jax?).  As with any public issues, lot's of twists and turns.  

[kells904]

I've read about the conflict of interest thing with the City Council member (Clark, was it?  Don't remember), and have heard about JTA "cooking the books" to push their own agenda.  Make no mistake, I don't trust those [people].  You don't hire circus monkeys to make a wedding cake.  Sure they look the part (intelligent) but they're still circus monkeys!!!  I will say, stjr, I've only recently begun to get involved with this kinda stuff--found MJ 2 months ago--so I'm still learning.

You bring up another thing though, that I've been puzzled about.  I don't really get the ban on billboards either. Really, in this economic crisis, you gotta do what you gotta do, IMO.  Billboards and bus signs seems like small potatoes to me.  If you can flip out on a Chinese restauarant for a sign on their fence, you can't regulate where some billboards are gonna go?  I don't know why you'd turn away anything that generates revenue at a time where you're clearly not making enough.  I think City Hall's BS-ing and decades-long game of circle jerk has complicated things to beyond common sense answers.  But I suppose this is why I'm not a politician.

[stjr]

^Kells, the billboard issue isn't one of economics, but of visual blight.  At one time, this city was plastered with billboards and blinking-light portable sign boards (thousands of them!).  (Again, please see the several threads on this.) Concerned citizens worked hard to craft a law that would gradually phase out existing boards and ban new ones while holding up to legal challenges.  As a result, our city is much more visually pleasing and positively distinctive.

Sometimes less is more and this is one of those situations.  Part of the problem is that Jax has sold itself out over and over to make a quick buck for its citizens. 

To an extreme, we could stimulate our local economy by encouraging the building of high rises next to your home and mine.  Would you contribute that to stimulate the economy?  I wouldn't.

The point is, we need to have some standards that aim high and stick to them, the mighty dollar be damned.  Our past failure to do so has served our community poorly and often cost us far more dollars than we garnered.

[tufsu1]

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority will receive the largest grant: $9,313,745 to buy nine low-floor, 40-foot replacement buses, and for transit enhancement, facility improvements, bus shelters and shelter enhancements, rehabilitation or renovation of administration and maintenance buildings, cooling systems for buses, park-and-ride lots and miscellaneous bus support equipment

So, tell me why we are needing ads for bus shelters, again?  More lies about how the Feds wouldn't fund bus shelters?  We discussed that other communities were getting such monies.  More misinformation by JTA and its proponents for sure.  Will JTA now back off the ads-for-bus shelters plan after putting the community in a tizzy and wasting the City Council's time and political capital once again?

because most of the $9 million isn't for shelters...let's just say $300k was for shelters...that would fund maybe 25...not exactly a huge improvement...and of course there's the fact that JTA didn't know they got this money until last week!

[kells904]

hmm...good arguments.  

while i still contend that billboards and signage could be regulated to some point that doesn't spill over into what i consider to be somewhat silly stuff like the thing concerning the dunn avenue chinese buffet sign, i don't care that much to go on about it as though i feel so passionate about it.  it is what it is, and there's bigger fish to fry.

but thank you for explaining the origin behind the sign laws, though; i didn't know anything about that.  i don't think i was born yet.

[cline]

As a result, our city is much more visually pleasing and positively distinctive.

You're joking, right?  There are still thousands of billboards up around the city.  The ban has done nothing to help clear up the visual blight around town.  The blight was predetermined years ago.  

[stjr]

As a result, our city is much more visually pleasing and positively distinctive.

You're joking, right?  There are still thousands of billboards up around the city.    

Maybe you didn't live here before the billboard and sign laws we have now came into existence.  It's hard to appreciate just how bad it was.  Whatever you see now is a world better.  You can often appreciate the difference as well when you visit other cities without any constraints.  It's certainly obvious the difference.  For that matter, just look at some of Clay and St. Johns counties' signs/billboards.

Keep in mind also, it's a phased approach because they could not remove existing billboards without paying just compensation.  That wasn't going to happen due to the expense, so existing billboards only disappear when they are torn down and lose their grandfather rights.  Also, it seems to me, there was an exception they were forced to make for billboards on federally funded highways such as interstates.

[uptowngirl]

good lord how about a decent system rather than this junk. I mean important and all, but fix the main issue-then shelters :-(

[stjr]

..and of course there's the fact that JTA didn't know they got this money until last week!

Don't you think JTA had at least an obligation to disclose they applied or were eligible for these funds?  We even  had posters (I won't call out any names here) on MJ say bus shelters were not a qualifying stimulus project.  Part of JTA's appeal appeared to be that ads were the only hope for any foreseeable funding for bus shelters.  Sounds like JTA wasn't exactly forthcoming about this regardless of the funding level.  What a surprise.

[uptowngirl]

I don't care if you have the taj of bus shelters, if i cannot get where I need to go on time, safely, with a small measure of comfort and serice then why do i care about the freaking shelter?

[stjr]

I don't care if you have the taj of bus shelters, if i cannot get where I need to go on time, safely, with a small measure of comfort and serice then why do i care about the freaking shelter?

Uptowngirl, we agree.  But JTA used riders like you to pry this door open.  They made the public "feel sorry" for you baking in the sun and getting wet and cold in the rain.  It's OK with me if they cancel the project, I am not a bus rider.  Though, I would agree with some that bus shelters are integral to an overall WELL-run bus system and are a reasonable amenity to offer bus riders. (My issue is limited to ads that endanger our billboard/sign laws.)  But, then, as you say, we don't have a well run bus system.  Where do we begin? 

[tufsu1]

We even had posters (I won't call out any names here) on MJ say bus shelters were not a qualifying stimulus project

for all but this last small FTA grant program, that would be a true statement.

[Ocklawaha]

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority will receive the largest grant: $9,313,745 to buy nine low-floor, 40-foot replacement buses, and for transit enhancement, facility improvements, bus shelters and shelter enhancements, rehabilitation or renovation of administration and maintenance buildings, cooling systems for buses, park-and-ride lots and miscellaneous bus support equipment

So, tell me why we are needing ads for bus shelters, again?  More lies about how the Feds wouldn't fund bus shelters?  We discussed that other communities were getting such monies.  More misinformation by JTA and its proponents for sure.  Will JTA now back off the ads-for-bus shelters plan after putting the community in a tizzy and wasting the City Council's time and political capital once again?

Sorry STJR, but this money is NOT enough to make the bus shelter changes that advertising could and would make for our system. Advertising would return enough that perhaps some of this money could then be used to upgrade other area's of our bus stops, such as lighting, ADA ramps, litter control, Next Bus Information, WIFI, monitors, sidewalks, etc....  Killing advertising simply slams another door on voluntary private funding of our facilities, monies that will now have to come out of the tax payers pocket.


OCKLAWAHA