JTA is getting fed money!

[Dog Walker]

Urban,  A very large number of buses in Europe, especially in Germany are diesel/electric hybrids.  Siemens makes a system that puts 600volt motors on each wheel, run off of one, super-quiet diesel generator that runs at a constant speed and is super clean as well.  Because the motors are in the wheel wells, the buses are very low to the ground and easy to access.

We are so far behind in transportation technology that we begin to look like a third world country by comparison.

[thelakelander]

More details.....

JTA to get $9.3 million in federal stimulus money

By Larry Hannan

The federal stimulus bill has been good to the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.

The U.S. Department of Transportation announced this month that JTA was being awarded $9.3 million as part of a new batch of federal stimulus awards that distributed more than $600 million throughout the country.

The JTA money will go toward buying new buses, purchasing new fare collection equipment, a hybrid electric cooling system for buses, bus shelters, operating assistance for bus routes and a regional park-and-ride hub in Clay County.

The Times-Union spoke with Steve Arrington, JTA director of resource management, and Mike Miller, JTA spokesman, to get more details on how this money will be used.


How many buses will be purchased with the stimulus money?

Arrington estimates about nine buses, with about $3.1 million of the stimulus money. The 40-foot buses will look the same as the current vehicles but use a cleaner-burning diesel fuel.


What is a hybrid electric cooling system?

It's a new cooling system for buses that cools the oil in the engine and operates the air conditioning. The $1.25 million allocated for this should allow JTA to install the system in about 65 of its 185 buses.

JTA will replace the buses' electric fans with computer-controlled fans. Arrington said this will allow bus engines to run at a more even temperature, preventing wear and tear and saving money in the long term.


How will the money allocated for operating assistance to bus routes be spent?

The $1.1 million will go to bus routes from downtown to Beach Boulevard, St. Johns Town Center and the University of North Florida. Arrington said the federal rules allow some of the money to be spent on existing bus routes.


Where will the new bus shelters go?

JTA is now figuring out the best places to build the shelters, but Blanding Boulevard appears likely to get most of the money. These shelters will not have advertisements on them.


What is this regional park-and-ride in Clay County?

It is a long-term plan to have a bus station, and possibly a train station, in Clay County that will allow commuters access to downtown Jacksonville. More than $1 million is going toward the design and construction of the facility that will be off of County Road 220 adjacent to the CSX railroad tracks.

The timeline for getting the park-and-ride built is still up in the air, but design work will take more than a year, Arrington said.

larry.hannan@jacksonville.com

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-22/story/jta-get-93-million-federal-stimulus-money

[Jason]

This story was scooped by almost 2 weeks...

[Ocklawaha]

It's going to be another feeding frenzy in the shark tank when Mike Miller tries to claim that Hybrid AC is the same as a Hybrid bus or coach.


OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Interesting, of all the items listed, only one did JTA fail to price and quantify in the answers:  Bus shelters!

Given that JTA is yet to publicize the cost, economics, or quantities of bus shelters associated with the advertising program, why should they spill the beans here?  And, this isn't a cover over?

New buses: $3.1 million for 9 buses
New hybrid electric cooling: $1.25 million for 65 buses
Bus routes: $1.1 million for  3 +/- bus routes
Clay County station: $1 million for 1 regional station
Bus shelters: $ ?? for ?? shelters

Let's see if we can help JTA out with their math shyness:

$9.3 million less $3.1 mil less $1.25 mil less $1.1 mil less $1 mil leaves about $2.85 mil, presumably for bus shelters.  How many does that buy?  At $8,000* each, that would be some 356 bus shelters!!

Now that has to make a serious dent in our community needs.  Why isn't JTA trumpeting this?  Let me guess.

----------------------------
*Average price based on the following information from the Florida Times Union:

The cost of building a shelter is between $4,000 and $12,000, depending on the type and location.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-01-11/story/plan_to_build_bus_shelters_with_advertising_in_jacksonville_moves_forwar

[CS Foltz]

But stjr.......we gotta have that "Advertising" in order to build shelters...........according to JTA and their latest numbers lotto!

[tufsu1]

well I can tell you the $9.3 million includes several "small" projects...so there isn't $2.85 million for shelters....also, you all seem to forget (or fail to mention) that the other shelters would be built and maintained by a private company in return for the right to advertise.

[Dog Walker]

The current buses have electrically driven fans.  Can one of you transportation tech types tell us what the difference is with the "hybrid" cooling systems that are going to be installed?

My wife's Volkswagen Jetta TDI has electric fan, electric power steering, electric throttle, electric vacuum pump.  Does that make it a "Hybrid" too?

[stjr]

well I can tell you the $9.3 million includes several "small" projects...so there isn't $2.85 million for shelters....also, you all seem to forget (or fail to mention) that the other shelters would be built and maintained by a private company in return for the right to advertise.

Tufsu, I can only go based on the public info.  JTA gave costs and quantity numbers for every project cited but one. They have failed to release any specific numbers in the press on bus shelters and active opponents are claiming the same.  If JTA doesn't fill the vacuum, then don't be surprised when citizens become suspicious and/or do their own math.  I don't see you suggesting what the actual numbers are.

Even if the numbers are off a bit, we are still talking about hundreds of shelters.  How many more could we need after that?  Let's get those done and reevaluate. 

And, once again, you conveniently fail to mention the real issue about ads is about the potential to gut our billboard and sign laws.

[fsujax]

Did the paper list every project the JTA was spending money on? maybe the paper only listed the largest or most appealing.

[tufsu1]

Even if the numbers are off a bit, we are still talking about hundreds of shelters.  How many more could we need after that?  Let's get those done and reevaluate. 

well considering that there are over 3,000 stops and only about 300 current shelters, quite a few!

[Ocklawaha]

More typical Jacksonville BS...

"THE TITANIC IS SINKING! PASS THE TEASPOON!"

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

well considering that there are over 3,000 stops ....!

Tufsu, I am sure you are aware that the 3,000 stops is an over-count that JTA failed to correct on purpose.  That is because  the 3,000 stops includes counting three stops at one spot if three buses go by there.  Like all the other specifics regarding bus shelters and the ad program, JTA seems to like that no one really knows the true number of stops.  Suffice it to say, it's clearly way below the 3,000 so let's stop using that bogus number.

And, regardless of the number of stops, it isn't realistic to put an $8,000 or whatever bus shelter at every single one of them.  Either demand or location prohibits justifying the costs.  And, it's already been indicated that ads will only appear on shelters in commercial areas, most likely with heavy traffic.  Otherwise, advertisers won't pay enough, or anything, to advertise on the shelter.

Certainly, 200 to 300 bus shelters will go a long way to meeting a realistic need for the system, especially over the near term.  Until JTA shows more transparency and these funded ones are done, talking beyond that seems less than credible.

Inaccurate or withheld numbers, misleading statements, conflicted lawyers, lack of imagination or initiative, etc. "ads" up to a backroom deal.

Did the paper list every project the JTA was spending money on? maybe the paper only listed the largest or most appealing.

FSU, JTA answered the questions.  Why don't you ask them. Better yet, ask them specifically about the bus shelters, what they cost, how many dollars go with it, and how many they are building with these funds.  While you are it, ask them about the economics of the ad program - revenues, costs, numbers of shelters, etc.

I only know what they said and they said nothing about anything else using the money.  The format of the article appeared to be giving a full accounting.  What could eat up $2.85 million when all the major projects listed were mostly less than half of that?

[tufsu1]

Tufsu, I am sure you are aware that the 3,000 stops is an over-count that JTA failed to correct on purpose.  That is because  the 3,000 stops includes counting three stops at one spot if three buses go by there.  

wrong...the overstatement was when they said there were about 6,000 stops....there are approx. 3,000 unique stops in the system.

as for what the $9.3 million goes for....this was discussed at either the September or October NFTPO board meeting...I'm sure its in the minutes.

[stjr]

wrong...the overstatement was when they said there were about 6,000 stops....there are approx. 3,000 unique stops in the system.

If you say so, Tufsu.  Expect to confuse people when the numbers keep changing.  Who really can say what the final number is?  Hard to trust JTA's "numbers of the day."

as for what the $9.3 million goes for....this was discussed at either the September or October NFTPO board meeting...I'm sure its in the minutes.

Well, Tufsu, I just ran across this article in the print edition of the T-U and those clever devils printed a chart, not posted on the web site, that gives a more refined breakdown of the $2.85 million.

Let's take a look at that portion further:

$36,000 - Landscaping and irrigation (that will improve the transit system!)
$400,000 - renovate Church Street property (I presume that is JTA digs at Church and Myrtle.  Bus riders will surely notice that improvement!)
$450,000 - TEMPORARY space for JTA mass transit system employees (I guess we can't wait for the new Intermodal/"JTA City" complex, huh?)
$730,000 - Fare Collection System (How is it done now?  This is a top priority?)
$800,000 - Security guards for Rosa Parks Station (at $30.00/hr [pay, benefits, training, overhead], 24 hours/day, that will cover 3 guards for about 1 year.  Maybe 2 years if hours cut.  Then, what?  What do they do now?  Is there a big problem there?  What about all the other "stations"?)
$430,000 - Finally, bus shelters! ($180,000 of this goes for solar lighting and cameras at the shelters.)  Assuming the $8,000 average is a prototypical station with these features, that means this equates to about 53 to 54 shelters.

Overall, it seems JTA thinks it has a lot more important things than shelters to spend money on.  Not sure riders and others would fully agree.  That landscaping money, alone, could buy 4.5 shelters.  $850,000 on JTA digs could build another 106 shelters.  That alone could bring the total to about 164 shelters.  Who says JTA can't find the money?  It is really a matter of priorities.