More Pudding Proves Cunning Linguist Camp Wrong (again)...

[nvrenuf]

doing your best to completely isolate the new class from the rest of the neighborhood through the formation of members only (and overwhelmingly white) clubs like SPAR, the Wine Club,  and the First Friday parties (whose invitations are only sent out through the almost completely white, and private associations like SPAR.)

Pretty sure the Springfield Wine Society was formed to drink wine not to isolate anyone, the only thing I'm aware of that they limit to is # that attend. And I guess we need to inform all the non-whites (meaning black, yellow, brown and red) that do attend SWS, First Fridays and other club sponsored events they were mistaken by thinking they could show up? <sarcasm, you know, in case no one could figure it out>

So just how many of the neighborhood's lesser-privileged residents are milling around and sipping the Louis Jadot?

Anybody want make a bet?

Its just a ruse to get you talking about something else besides the sweltering blister of Zoo's Pudding(head) Crusade, Chris.  The individual organizations are just fine, and everyone reading knows that, but the neighborhood as it exists doesnt back up Zoo's claims that the "non racially defined but still mostly white upperclass (and therefore educated with superior morality and social skills)" Man's (and people of other genders of course) Burden are the justification for 'excluding' other, non approved, residents from living in or moving to the neighborhood.

A ruse? Yep, that's what most of my posts will historically show. I'm into ruses. <sarcasm again> It could also just be a response to what I considered to be a hysterical and weird statement. But then that is just my opinion and last I checked I was still allowed to have them on metrojacksonville forums unless there is some form of classist system in place here that only allows a few select people to have an opinion.

Bash away, I'll be back later. Some of us have work to do.

[zoo]

simply excluding the poor from one neighborhood of a city

Jasper Aeten's (oops, I mean Stephen's) words, not mine.

[buckethead]

It almost sounds like most people would rather not be associated with that literary masterpiece.

Why would anyone try to infer such associations exist?

[zoo]

Here are quotes of my posts again:

don't bother twisting my words to mean that I think any more African-Americans that want to come to Springfield should be excluded -- that is not what I typed or intended. However, I'll admit I feel that way about low-income, as improvement of area economics and revitalization (my hope) go hand in hand

My post does not say anyone currently, and legally, residing in Springfield should be forced out. My post refers to those wanting to come in, and I have no bones to pick with any one single home-renter or buyer who is in compliance with the laws of the municipality.

However, I'm calling bullshit on any group, non-profit or otherwise, that wants to stack more low- or no-income persons (of any ethnicity) in Springfield, while claiming it's good for those persons or is necessary to maintain diversity

Didn't see "simply excluding the poor from one neighborhood of a city" in there anywhere, though I am witnessing umatched amounts what is bold in my earlier post, quoted below:

Though I haven't met everyone in the 'hood, it is interesting that, with all the diversity, I haven't met a single person in Springfield that wants the community to turn into a "wealthy enclave", or a "boring place full of nothing but white people." But I have certainly met a few who try to use that garbage to manipulate the opinions of those who wish to believe it.

Stephen, the real irony is that you, your two friends and the myriad of yous concocted in your imagination are the brainwashing victims here -- believing and purporting that Springfield should remain as it is (or was in 2000 or before?) with the concentration of low-income households that originally resulted from, among other things, racist/classist housing, lending, infrastructure and transportation policy of the 1940s-80s! Economic integration (what the experts espouse, and I support) will lead to social change that benefits socio-economically challenged groups. It's proven, and it's even working in Springfield already, despite your garden-variety wordsmithy. Your cause, keeping Springfield unbalanced with low-income households, hasn't ever made positive change and won't in the future.

Your "I'm FOR Springfield" position is malarkey unless there is some misunderstanding on your part about the definition of "integrate" -- " to end the segregation of and bring into equal membership in society or an organization." (Merriam-Webster). Equal means equal. 50/50. See below:

The below article by Leonard Pitts was reprinted in the Viewpoint section of the T-U today (3/7/10) under the headline "Saving young people in crisis; Violent crime has dropped 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passed the state math test." The proof is in the pudding:

A purpose to build homes, lift spirits
BY LEONARD PITTS
LPITTS@MIAMIHERALD.COM
NEW ORLEANS -- Warren Buffett leads a troop of officials, reporters, and a guy with a boom mike into the just-finished new apartment.

Five years ago, after the levees failed, this area was ten feet underwater. Now, on this bitterly cold morning early in March, it is a construction zone ringed by chainlink fences, and one of the richest men in America wanders around what will eventually be some family's home. Model furnishings have been placed just so. The smell of new is still in the rooms.

This is part of the inaugural meeting of the Purpose Built Communities network, to which civic leaders from around the country have come. And, it is an attempt to export ``What Works.''

As in my 2007-2008 series of columns by that name, about programs that have shown success saving young people in crisis. One of the most ambitious of them was the East Lake Foundation in Atlanta, founded in 1995 by developer Tom Cousins.

Cousins achieved near miracles -- violent crime down 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passing the state math test when only 5 percent could do it before -- in what had been one of the worst and most dangerous public housing projects in the country. There were many elements to that success: offering better schools, creating an early learning center, building a YMCA, evicting felons.

But the centerpiece was that in the airy new apartment complex Cousins built to replace the housing project, half the units are held for middle-income families, the other half for poor, government subsidized families. The idea being that middle-income people would, just in their daily doings, model for their neighbors the habits and behaviors of a successful life.

It worked, spectacularly.

And Purpose Built Communities is the outgrowth. Founded by Cousins, Buffett and philanthropist Julian Robertson, it offers expertise, guidance and partnerships to those seeking to replicate East Lake's success in their own blighted communities. Its member network includes projects in Rome, Ga., Jackson, Miss., Indianapolis and Memphis. There is no charge for its services.

Vice-president Carol Naughton says community leaders in other cities who want to learn more should visit www.purposebuiltcommunities.org. Or, she says: ``Give me a call. It's that simple. Give me a call (404-591-1400) and we'll start the conversation. We can kind of coach you about how to build this initial organization, about who your partners can be, who can bring resources to the community and advocate for the community. And who those resources are within the community, too.''

It is not easy and it is not magic. It takes time, tears, toil and setback to grow hope in places where it has not grown before. But do it, says Cousins, and ``you will see the children that would've been lost in the normal process become stars, become bright.''

``There is,'' says PBC President Chuck Knapp, ``a difference between a project and a movement.''

They want this to be a movement.

``Whenever you have something happen like East Lake,'' says Buffett, ``people say, `That's just because one guy had a passion for it, wouldn't stop and went through a brick wall, made it happen.' But the real test is whether it's replicable. Once you do it beyond where the founders started it, it becomes evident to other communities: if the community cares enough about getting it done, it will get done.''

And this, he says, needs to get done in dozens of communities.

It's simple: East Lake's economic mix before - unequal. East Lake's economic mix now - equal. East Lake's residents before - unequal. East Lake's residents now - getting closer to equal.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

"... the myriad of yous concocted in your imagination are the brainwashing victims here..."

Stephen has a truly phenomenal imagination, for him to summon me from his mind into physical existence when he was only three months old. Well, I'm here now, deal with it.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ert6uHKCdek

[zoo]

Economic integration works "spectacularly."

The below article by Leonard Pitts was reprinted in the Viewpoint section of the T-U today (3/7/10) under the headline "Saving young people in crisis; Violent crime has dropped 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passed the state math test." The proof is in the pudding:

A purpose to build homes, lift spirits
BY LEONARD PITTS
LPITTS@MIAMIHERALD.COM
NEW ORLEANS -- Warren Buffett leads a troop of officials, reporters, and a guy with a boom mike into the just-finished new apartment.

Five years ago, after the levees failed, this area was ten feet underwater. Now, on this bitterly cold morning early in March, it is a construction zone ringed by chainlink fences, and one of the richest men in America wanders around what will eventually be some family's home. Model furnishings have been placed just so. The smell of new is still in the rooms.

This is part of the inaugural meeting of the Purpose Built Communities network, to which civic leaders from around the country have come. And, it is an attempt to export ``What Works.''

As in my 2007-2008 series of columns by that name, about programs that have shown success saving young people in crisis. One of the most ambitious of them was the East Lake Foundation in Atlanta, founded in 1995 by developer Tom Cousins.

Cousins achieved near miracles -- violent crime down 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passing the state math test when only 5 percent could do it before -- in what had been one of the worst and most dangerous public housing projects in the country. There were many elements to that success: offering better schools, creating an early learning center, building a YMCA, evicting felons.

But the centerpiece was that in the airy new apartment complex Cousins built to replace the housing project, half the units are held for middle-income families, the other half for poor, government subsidized families. The idea being that middle-income people would, just in their daily doings, model for their neighbors the habits and behaviors of a successful life.

It worked, spectacularly.

And Purpose Built Communities is the outgrowth. Founded by Cousins, Buffett and philanthropist Julian Robertson, it offers expertise, guidance and partnerships to those seeking to replicate East Lake's success in their own blighted communities. Its member network includes projects in Rome, Ga., Jackson, Miss., Indianapolis and Memphis. There is no charge for its services.

Vice-president Carol Naughton says community leaders in other cities who want to learn more should visit www.purposebuiltcommunities.org. Or, she says: ``Give me a call. It's that simple. Give me a call (404-591-1400) and we'll start the conversation. We can kind of coach you about how to build this initial organization, about who your partners can be, who can bring resources to the community and advocate for the community. And who those resources are within the community, too.''

It is not easy and it is not magic. It takes time, tears, toil and setback to grow hope in places where it has not grown before. But do it, says Cousins, and ``you will see the children that would've been lost in the normal process become stars, become bright.''

``There is,'' says PBC President Chuck Knapp, ``a difference between a project and a movement.''

They want this to be a movement.

``Whenever you have something happen like East Lake,'' says Buffett, ``people say, `That's just because one guy had a passion for it, wouldn't stop and went through a brick wall, made it happen.' But the real test is whether it's replicable. Once you do it beyond where the founders started it, it becomes evident to other communities: if the community cares enough about getting it done, it will get done.''

And this, he says, needs to get done in dozens of communities.

[civil42806]

Economic integration works "spectacularly."

The below article by Leonard Pitts was reprinted in the Viewpoint section of the T-U today (3/7/10) under the headline "Saving young people in crisis; Violent crime has dropped 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passed the state math test." The proof is in the pudding:

A purpose to build homes, lift spirits
BY LEONARD PITTS
LPITTS@MIAMIHERALD.COM
NEW ORLEANS -- Warren Buffett leads a troop of officials, reporters, and a guy with a boom mike into the just-finished new apartment.

Five years ago, after the levees failed, this area was ten feet underwater. Now, on this bitterly cold morning early in March, it is a construction zone ringed by chainlink fences, and one of the richest men in America wanders around what will eventually be some family's home. Model furnishings have been placed just so. The smell of new is still in the rooms.

This is part of the inaugural meeting of the Purpose Built Communities network, to which civic leaders from around the country have come. And, it is an attempt to export ``What Works.''

As in my 2007-2008 series of columns by that name, about programs that have shown success saving young people in crisis. One of the most ambitious of them was the East Lake Foundation in Atlanta, founded in 1995 by developer Tom Cousins.

Cousins achieved near miracles -- violent crime down 96 percent, 78 percent of kids passing the state math test when only 5 percent could do it before -- in what had been one of the worst and most dangerous public housing projects in the country. There were many elements to that success: offering better schools, creating an early learning center, building a YMCA, evicting felons.

But the centerpiece was that in the airy new apartment complex Cousins built to replace the housing project, half the units are held for middle-income families, the other half for poor, government subsidized families. The idea being that middle-income people would, just in their daily doings, model for their neighbors the habits and behaviors of a successful life.

It worked, spectacularly.

And Purpose Built Communities is the outgrowth. Founded by Cousins, Buffett and philanthropist Julian Robertson, it offers expertise, guidance and partnerships to those seeking to replicate East Lake's success in their own blighted communities. Its member network includes projects in Rome, Ga., Jackson, Miss., Indianapolis and Memphis. There is no charge for its services.

Vice-president Carol Naughton says community leaders in other cities who want to learn more should visit www.purposebuiltcommunities.org. Or, she says: ``Give me a call. It's that simple. Give me a call (404-591-1400) and we'll start the conversation. We can kind of coach you about how to build this initial organization, about who your partners can be, who can bring resources to the community and advocate for the community. And who those resources are within the community, too.''

It is not easy and it is not magic. It takes time, tears, toil and setback to grow hope in places where it has not grown before. But do it, says Cousins, and ``you will see the children that would've been lost in the normal process become stars, become bright.''

``There is,'' says PBC President Chuck Knapp, ``a difference between a project and a movement.''

They want this to be a movement.

``Whenever you have something happen like East Lake,'' says Buffett, ``people say, `That's just because one guy had a passion for it, wouldn't stop and went through a brick wall, made it happen.' But the real test is whether it's replicable. Once you do it beyond where the founders started it, it becomes evident to other communities: if the community cares enough about getting it done, it will get done.''

And this, he says, needs to get done in dozens of communities.

Apparently Memphis wasn't so fortunate.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

[strider]

And what is next?  Are you going to have every new potential renter or home owner fill out an application to see if they meet your criteria, Zoo?  If you only think higher income families need apply, how exactly are you going to accomplish that?

Like in the past when the “Broken Window Theory “ and the “Community Policing” ideas were somehow bastardized by SPAR Council, I’m sure you will find a way to do the same to this latest idea.

And I note that you have ignored trying to answer how SPAR Council and yourself can possibly correlate embracing the ideas in the studies you have recently posted with the attacks against the very people who are accomplishing what the studies are about.  And how do you make this work with your current commercial development polices?

You indicated that you have not changed your spots, Zoo, and I have to say, I believe you.  You believe the same as you did a week ago or three months ago.  You are just trying to quote something nice to hide how you really feel.  I get that.  It is somewhat dishonest, but I do get it.  

Just to clarify, many of us have embraced the realities of Springfield.  What it is, who is here, who will stay and what should be done to insure a great community.  It is an all inclusive idea that will truly work. We are willing to embrace the social economic groups that are here now and the ones we believe will remain here for many years to come.  That is a lot different that saying we want to go backwards.  It is saying we want to go forwards and when we do, take everyone along with us, not just the few we like.  Heck, Zoo, we will even take you along with us.  Personally, I think it will be one heck of a ride.

[sheclown]

Zoo, what do you make the of Memphis study?

[cindi]

holey moley - we're in memphis? hey elvis? grilled peanut butter and banana sandwiches?

[Sportmotor]

Holy $h!t! You just rewrote "The White Man's Burden" to include Bruce Katz and William Julius Wilson!

Sportmotor, you're off the hook, I know I already nominated your "but wait...diamonds are worth more than gems!" post to the interwebs hall of fame already, but I'm changing my vote. This. Takes. The. !@#$%&*. Cake.

I don't know whether to laugh, or fall out bed guffawing like a hyena until I can no longer breathe. Tough choice.

Should I print this thread and fax it to Brookings and Harvard? I bet they've never seen something like this.

DAW

[Springfield Girl]

Reading the Memphis study was disheartening. What can be made of it? It would seem that a certain percentage of the population is going to behave badly no matter what society does or doesn't do for them. 

[samiam]

Reading the Memphis study was disheartening. What can be made of it? It would seem that a certain percentage of the population is going to behave badly no matter what society does or doesn't do for them. 

I saw the Memphis study a few years ago and was amazed, not only the evidence that it presented but how unlikely though normal Chanel's the conclusions would be brought together. Further study needs to be done on this. If it is true the number of section 8 housing needs to be limited to a small number per neighborhood and spread out thoughout the city in order to better assimilate lower income persons into normal society.

[chris farley]

Quote
Its why the work of Robert Peel was so revolutionary and noble, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Peel
Quote

I had a great history teacher who believed in teaching both sides.  He thought on the other hand that Peel was not as altruistic/noble as it seemed.  His family was incredibly weathly and their stuff needed protection = hence the idea of a police force.  He did repeal the corn laws though.

[zoo]

Another interesting article in June 08's Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1818255,00.html):

Gentrification: Not Ousting the Poor?
By BARBARA KIVIAT Sunday, Jun. 29, 2008

People tend to think gentrification goes like this: rich, educated white people move into a low-income minority neighborhood and drive out its original residents, who can no longer afford to live there. As it turns out, that's not typically true.

A new study by researchers at the University of Colorado at Boulder, University of Pittsburgh and Duke University, examined Census data from more than 15,000 neighborhoods across the U.S. in 1990 and 2000, and found that low-income non-white households did not disproportionately leave gentrifying areas. In fact, researchers found that at least one group of residents, high schoolâ€"educated blacks, were actually more likely to remain in gentrifying neighborhoods than in similar neighborhoods that didn't gentrify â€" even increasing as a fraction of the neighborhood population, and seeing larger-than-expected gains in income.

Those findings may seem counterintuitive, given that the term "gentrification," particularly in cities like New York and San Francisco, has become synonymous with soaring rents, wealthier neighbors and the dislocation of low-income residents. But overall, the new study suggests, the popular notion of the yuppie invasion is exaggerated. "We're not saying there aren't communities where displacement isn't happening," says Randall Walsh, an associate professor of economics at the University of Pittsburgh and one of the study's authors. "But in general, across all neighborhoods in the urbanized parts of the U.S., it looks like gentrification is a pretty good thing."

The researchers found, for example, that income gains in gentrifying neighborhoods â€" usually defined as low-income urban areas that undergo rises in income and housing prices â€" were more widely dispersed than one might expect. Though college-educated whites accounted for 20% of the total income gain in gentrifying neighborhoods, black householders with high school degrees contributed even more: 33% of the neighborhood's total rise. In other words, a broad demographic of people in the neighborhood benefited financially. According to the study's findings, only one group â€" black residents who never finished high school â€" saw their income grow at a slower rate than predicted. But the study also suggests that these residents weren't moving out of their neighborhoods at a disproportionately higher rate than from similar neighborhoods that didn't gentrify.

This study isn't the first to come to that conclusion. A 2005 paper published in Urban Affairs Review by Lance Freeman, an assistant professor of urban planning at Columbia University, looked at a nationwide sample of neighborhoods between 1986 and 1989 and found that low-income residents tended to move out of gentrifying areas at essentially the same frequency they left other neighborhoods. The real force behind the changing face of a gentrifying community, Freeman concluded, isn't displacement but succession. When people move away as part of normal neighborhood turnover, the people who move in are generally more affluent. Community advocates may argue that succession is just another form of exclusion â€" if low-income people can't afford to move in â€" but, still, it doesn't exactly fit the popular perception of individuals being forced from their homes.

The new study found that while gentrification did not necessarily push out original residents, it did create neighborhoods that middle-class minorities moved to. The addition of white college graduates, especially those under 40 without children, was a hallmark of gentrifying neighborhoods â€" that much fit the conventional wisdom â€" but so was the influx of college-educated blacks and Hispanics, who moved to gentrifying neighborhoods more often than they to did similar, more static areas. Two other groups tended to move more often into upwardly mobile neighborhoods as well: 40-to-60-year-old Hispanics without a high-school degree, and similarly uneducated Hispanics aged 20 to 40 with children â€" a counterpoint to the common conception of gentrification, if there ever was one. The only group that was less likely to move to a gentrifying area was high schoolâ€"educated whites aged 20 to 40 with kids.

The study is under review for publication, but is being circulated early by the National Bureau of Economic Research. The findings, while unexpected, are notable for the depth of data on which they're based. Walsh and his colleagues, Terra McKinnish, an associate professor of economics at the University of Colorado at Boulder, and Kirk White, an economist at Duke University's Triangle Census Research Data Center, compared confidential Census figures from 1990 and 2000 from 15,040 neighborhoods, with an average of about 4,000 residents each, in 64 metropolitan areas, such as Phoenix, Boston, Ft. Lauderdale, Columbus, New York, Atlanta and San Diego. The researchers identified gentrifying neighborhoods as those in which the average family earned less than $30,079 in 1990 â€" the poorest one-fifth of the country â€" and at least $10,000 more 10 years later. Taken all together, the study paints a more nuanced picture of gentrification than exists in the popular imagination. But the authors acknowledge that it leaves plenty of unanswered questions, such as why certain demographic groups are more likely to stay in â€" or move to â€" gentrifying neighborhoods, and why certain groups, such as blacks without high school degrees, don't see the same income gains as others.

Then there is that most fundamental of questions: does gentrification lead to greater wealth for people in a neighborhood, or are the people who choose to live in such a place otherwise predisposed to make more money? "This study shows us a lot more about gentrification," says Walsh, "but there's still a lot we don't know."