The Death of Springfield's Resurgence

[second_pancake]

It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

As residents of Springfield and not developers we can't really start on main street, finish that, and then start working on our homes.  For the developers to come, we residents have to do our part and live in the neighborhood.  So, just let us continue doing what we do, the retail will come...and then you'll be able to move in.    Meanwhile, we'll all continue to love our neighborhood.

  You obviously are only reading (or reading into) what you want.  I know you're not developers.  I stated what makes sense, not necessarily what is doable by a couple of people wanting to save homes.  Hence the remark about "if i were a multi-millionaire."  And, I've stated time after time about how I love the houses and how I feel about the area looking beyond what's directly in front of my face when I'm there.  So, I'd appreciate it if in the future you'd not try to paint me as being a Springfield-hating-anti-historical-suburban-tract-home-loving-person-of-little-substance

[jason_contentdg]

It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

As residents of Springfield and not developers we can't really start on main street, finish that, and then start working on our homes.  For the developers to come, we residents have to do our part and live in the neighborhood.  So, just let us continue doing what we do, the retail will come...and then you'll be able to move in.    Meanwhile, we'll all continue to love our neighborhood.

  You obviously are only reading (or reading into) what you want.  I know you're not developers.  I stated what makes sense, not necessarily what is doable by a couple of people wanting to save homes.  Hence the remark about "if i were a multi-millionaire."  And, I've stated time after time about how I love the houses and how I feel about the area looking beyond what's directly in front of my face when I'm there.  So, I'd appreciate it if in the future you'd not try to paint me as being a Springfield-hating-anti-historical-suburban-tract-home-loving-person-of-little-substance

I never said you loved tract homes or were anti historical....

[jason_contentdg]

It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

As residents of Springfield and not developers we can't really start on main street, finish that, and then start working on our homes.  For the developers to come, we residents have to do our part and live in the neighborhood.  So, just let us continue doing what we do, the retail will come...and then you'll be able to move in.    Meanwhile, we'll all continue to love our neighborhood.

  You obviously are only reading (or reading into) what you want.  I know you're not developers.  I stated what makes sense, not necessarily what is doable by a couple of people wanting to save homes.  Hence the remark about "if i were a multi-millionaire."  And, I've stated time after time about how I love the houses and how I feel about the area looking beyond what's directly in front of my face when I'm there.  So, I'd appreciate it if in the future you'd not try to paint me as being a Springfield-hating-anti-historical-suburban-tract-home-loving-person-of-little-substance

I never said you loved tract homes or were anti historical.... oh, or of little substance.

[jbm32206]

I'm trying to figure out the families that live in Springfield.  Not the single guys who have no sense of fear and welcome challenges by walking around town at all hours of the night practically inviting trouble just so they can keep the neighborhood safe.  I'm talking about couples with small children.

Almost everyone on this thread has admitted, while it's better, it's still not as safe as other areas (San Marco, Riverside, Ortega, etc.), and statistics show that more violent crimes resulting in fatalities occur in and around Springfield than anywhere else in Jax.   So, I was asking why anyone who wasn't in the position to be an urban pioneer (as defined in the previous paragraph) would live there?

Btw, I've explored Springfield through every single phase of restoration it's gone through, and while there have been some aesthetic improvements, it is still not some place I would feel comfortable having my 8 and 12 year old walking around on the sidewalk after dark to a friend's house...block parties or no block parties.  And yes, there are places like that in Riverside too, but you don't hear about shooting deaths every other day taking place there. 

First of all, saying that more crime happens here in Springfield than anywhere else in the city, is completely false. As it's been pointed out by Dan and others...the media tends to lump other areas into Springfield, when it isn't. Same goes for what's beyond Ionia towards the RR tracks. Historic Springfield is only one square mile, and as Dan said, there's only been 2 killings..one drugie on drugie (and they knew each other) the other was a JSO involved shooting and someone from another area of town. Any other murders or shootings have NOT happened in this neighborhood.

You've made it sound like there's thugs roaming the streets firing their weapons at everyone...and in reality, this is a rather quiet neighborhood. Most of the stories you hear about happen in New Springfield (which isn't our neighborhood at all) or in Lincoln Court over behind Shands...which is still not our neighborhood.

As far as families and not the single guys, there's lots of them...most with youngsters, and I see them out playing all the time...never heard of any problems with them. For the most part, once the sun goes down...it's extremely quiet and I've never had a problem walking around at night.

[hanjin1]

I live on 7th Street and though I do see the occasional homeless person walking by, I am by no means ever scared to walk outdoors. I have even walked through Springfield to Downtown in the middle of the night. Though there were people out, I was not scared of them and they did not once try to bother me. I do agree that Main Street needs more stores, but that will come in time. Our neighborhood can't change over night and if you looked at Springfield 10 years ago and look at it now, there is a massively huge difference. I believe it will not be long before retail starts coming in to Springfield. I love my neighborhood and have made many friends here then I have made living in Baymeadows or the Southside. I'm not sure, but wasn't Riverside/Avondale like Springfield 20 or 30 ago?

[JeffreyS]

I live on 7th Street and though I do see the occasional homeless person walking by, I am by no means ever scared to walk outdoors. I have even walked through Springfield to Downtown in the middle of the night. Though there were people out, I was not scared of them and they did not once try to bother me. I do agree that Main Street needs more stores, but that will come in time. Our neighborhood can't change over night and if you looked at Springfield 10 years ago and look at it now, there is a massively huge difference. I believe it will not be long before retail starts coming in to Springfield. I love my neighborhood and have made many friends here then I have made living in Baymeadows or the Southside. I'm not sure, but wasn't Riverside/Avondale like Springfield 20 or 30 ago?

Riverside has been polished and made a little more generic over the last ten years. Springfield comes from a different direction because of its proximity to industrial areas most of which do not care if their property is attractive.  Riverside bordered by Ortega and Murry hills never had the negative perceptions about the  residents.  The economic history of Springfield make it a bigger challenge. So much potential if Ock can pull off his rail plan the sky is the limit for Springfield.

[zoo]

S_P, I had posted this before on another thread, but think you hadn't gone to check it out. It's info about retail progress in Springfield. Maybe it will tip the scale in favor of the pros.

http://srghomes.com/news/

[downtownparks]

We still love you Pancake, its just that the things you are saying is what a lot of Jaxons think, and by verbalizing them (or typing, rather) you are catching the brunt of it.

I have said it before. Springfield is NOT for everyone. People in Springfield do have a special kind of mettle, and as a result, we have a special kind of community. We are not utopia, but we are also not the wild west. In regards to crime, quite frankly we are like any other urban neighborhood. There are frustrations, but at the end of the day the neighbors and the houses make it well worth our time and efforts.

As was stated earlier, find me a person who has roots in Jacksonville, and you find someone who had parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents who lived in Springfield. Of the things that frustrate me about my neighborhood, the thing that hit me the most is how willing Jacksonville Natives are to lose their own heritage.

Invariably when I meet someone with roots, they have a story to tell. Just the other day at a kids birthday party with my daughter, her little friends grandparents told me they got married at the church around the corner from me. I heard another story of a guy and his sister running though the original rose arbor in Confederate Park, I have heard story after story about this neighborhood. I would love to see Jax re-embrace its core, because this is where the city grew up. In losing its core, Jacksonville in a lot of ways lost its heart, its individuality, and many of the things that make Jax a truly special city to live in.

[second_pancake]

    (that's for DTP's comments about still loving me and the sad story about heritage)

[downtownparks]

Sorry, didnt mean to make it awkward I was just saying, at least for me, I enjoy your posts and sentiments, I just whole heartedly disagree with you on this issue. Thats all :-)

[second_pancake]

S_P, I had posted this before on another thread, but think you hadn't gone to check it out. It's info about retail progress in Springfield. Maybe it will tip the scale in favor of the pros.

http://srghomes.com/news/

I saw that thread and I think that's awesome. I have my fingers crossed that something comes of it.

Historic Springfield is only one square mile,

REALLY?  I did not know that!  Ok, so if I'm looking at the map and I see MLK, I-95 and Union St. making a square that Springfield lies within, which area is actually Springfield (I thought is was the whole area).

Is it just between 8th, Main and Broad?

[downtownparks]

The boundrys of Historic Springfield are actually pretty clear. I will post a map showing what I mean in a bit.

Its Hogans Creek, or 1st St to the south, Boulevard/Hogans Creek to the west, Ionia/Railroad Tracks to the east, and 12/railroad tracks to the north.

The area due north is called "new springfield", then Brentwood. the area to the east is actually called "the eastside" but is actually and old neighborhood called Oakland, then Tallyrand and Fairfield, and the area to the west is Sugar Hill, then Durkeeville.

All of these communities are historical in nature, though I personally think Springfield has experienced the majority of the change.

[downtownparks]

Here is an 1893 Birdseye. You can see that the area that is now Springfield, while being largly undeveloped (it was basically a farming community until the great fire) is platted, and established. The area north of 11 and the RR tracks is not established at all.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:5:./temp/~ammem_LcaX::

[second_pancake]

I love old maps! Ok, now that I know this, I'm going to have to go on another tour

[RiversideGator]

Incidently, my mind is NOT made up...to whomever said that.  That is why I continually find myself driving around Springfield.  That's why I keep looking up crime stats.  That's how I ended up finding this forum (I googled Springfield trying to find more info on it and check up on its progress).  If anything, I'm trying to find reasons TO live there.  The price is right for the amount of house and the location is perfect, but it still just doesn't feel right when I'm there.  I don't like the way it looks, the lack of business and the ratio of degenerates to civilized people on the main drags.

I've often said if I were a multi-millionaire, I'd buy up all the buildings along Main St., completely reface them, then sell them as-is to any reputable business person that comes along so they're occupied.  Bottom line, burglar bars, liquor stores, vacant buildings, and crumbling facades do nothing to attract residents.  If Main St. looked more like King and Park, 5 Points, Riverside Ave., Edgewood - First Block, that would be dramatic.  But, you guys already know all this.  It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

Like I said, I've tried on several occasions to find reasons to move there, and while the 'pro' side of my list is growing, the 'cons' still outweigh them.  Fill Main St. with a coffee shop, a bakery, a cutesy gift shop, a couple of clothing stores (a really good one would be Johnny Cupcakes www.johnnycupcakes.com), an ice cream parlor, a furniture store or an independent interior designer's shop, and a small grocery store, then you've got something;-)  Even if you guys just organized a paint-a-thon where in the dark of night you all just started painting the buildings (yes, I know it would be illegal, but it's for the greater good damnit) to look fresh and new....don't know, just hoping all this would happen a little faster I suppose. 

pancake:  The reason why homes are now cheaper per square foot in Springfield is precisely because the neighborhood is not as nice yet as Riverside/Avondale or San Marco.  If you wait till Main Street is fully redeveloped and all the bums are totally run out, then prices will be too high for you.  Now is the time to buy and get in on the ground floor of the rehabilitation of the neighborhood.  I hear this all the time re Riverside:  People complain about how expensive Riverside is but where were they 10 years ago when it was much shadier and cheaper?