The Death of Springfield's Resurgence

[downtownparks]

statistics show that more violent crimes resulting in fatalities occur in and around Springfield than anywhere else in Jax.....shooting deaths every other day taking place there.

Hey Pancake, I dont think my neighborhood is for everyone, but you just stated two complete and totally inaccurate pieces of information.

In the last year we have had two shootings, one was last week with a cop shooting a drug dealer, before that is was last summer, with druggie on druggie crime.

I would be curious to see these "facts" you stated. I'm not attacking, and I am not suggesting everyone move to Springfield, but I am very tired of the misinformation.

[vicupstate]

Don't forget DTparks, everything North of the River is Springfield. 


That is the common misconception, at least.   

[second_pancake]

http://maps2.coj.net/crimestatsdiscl.asp

I got the information from the site above.  If you use Main Street as a reference and then just work your way up and around Springfield, you'll see that the assaults and battery offenses increase as you go East of Main and further north up Main toward the RR tracks.  The system defaults to a time period of 6 months reporting, but I used 08-25/2006 as my begin date and today's date as my end date.

In the quandrant East of Walnut and North of 6th, during this time period there were 110 assaults and battery and 1 murder.  I would assume that any shooting NOT resulting in death would fall under the assault and battery, but I may be wrong.  I didn't see a section for attempted murder.

I've run comparisons on the statistical data found for Springfield versus other major areas of Jax (Westside, Southside, Orange Park, West of Intracoastal, etc. (they didn't have any Beaches info) and the violent crimes in and around Springfield (I'm talking the area that is surrounding by MLK) outweigh those in any of the other areas.  Now, sex crimes are a different story. You'll find more lewd sex crimes occuring in areas that most people think are 'safe.'  Go figure.

[second_pancake]

statistics show that more violent crimes resulting in fatalities occur in and around Springfield than anywhere else in Jax.....shooting deaths every other day taking place there.

Hey Pancake, I dont think my neighborhood is for everyone, but you just stated two complete and totally inaccurate pieces of information.

In the last year we have had two shootings, one was last week with a cop shooting a drug dealer, before that is was last summer, with druggie on druggie crime.

I would be curious to see these "facts" you stated. I'm not attacking, and I am not suggesting everyone move to Springfield, but I am very tired of the misinformation.

Just so we're clear, I did say "hear" about shootings every other day, which while the "every other day" part is an exageration, to say every week is not far fetched at all.  When I turn on my local news, at least once a week there is a mention of "shooting...Springfield."  Now, granted, like vic said, for some reason the local news makes generalizations when it comes to what is and is not Springfield, but how is someone supposed to know?  If the news programs and papers don't state specifically that this was not in Springfield, we're going to make the assumption that they have their stuff together and it is in Springfield.  Shame on them for not getting it right, but shame on me if I assume they screwed up and go driving through that part of town late night on a Friday and get caught up in something.

[downtownparks]

while I agree the robbery stats are disconcerting, remember, every fight, every domestic, every bar fight, ect, ect, ect that is reported to police is also "assault".

The 1 murder is the one I told you about last summer. It was druggie on druggie, and ironically it happened at a house owned by a minister who is a slum lord.

It doesnt make it ok, but its not like we are a shooting gallery over here.

Also including Eastside, New Springfield, Lincoln Ct, University Plaza and Sugar Hill in our crime stats isnt really an accurate representation.

The reason Im a little defensive, BTW, is because you basically called me out. I live here with my wife and two little girls. For the record, I have never once felt that my wife or children were in danger, and they have far more friends here than we ever had when we lived in the southside area.

[downtownparks]

statistics show that more violent crimes resulting in fatalities occur in and around Springfield than anywhere else in Jax.....shooting deaths every other day taking place there.

Hey Pancake, I dont think my neighborhood is for everyone, but you just stated two complete and totally inaccurate pieces of information.

In the last year we have had two shootings, one was last week with a cop shooting a drug dealer, before that is was last summer, with druggie on druggie crime.

I would be curious to see these "facts" you stated. I'm not attacking, and I am not suggesting everyone move to Springfield, but I am very tired of the misinformation.

Just so we're clear, I did say "hear" about shootings every other day, which while the "every other day" part is an exageration, to say every week is not far fetched at all.  When I turn on my local news, at least once a week there is a mention of "shooting...Springfield."  Now, granted, like vic said, for some reason the local news makes generalizations when it comes to what is and is not Springfield, but how is someone supposed to know?  If the news programs and papers don't state specifically that this was not in Springfield, we're going to make the assumption that they have their stuff together and it is in Springfield.  Shame on them for not getting it right, but shame on me if I assume they screwed up and go driving through that part of town late night on a Friday and get caught up in something.

Being that almost everything on air is now on the station websites, I would be curious to see you prove this "every other week" theory.

[second_pancake]

while I agree the robbery stats are disconcerting, remember, every fight, every domestic, every bar fight, ect, ect, ect that is reported to police is also "assault".

The 1 murder is the one I told you about last summer. It was druggie on druggie, and ironically it happened at a house owned by a minister who is a slum lord.

It doesnt make it ok, but its not like we are a shooting gallery over here.

Also including Eastside, New Springfield, Lincoln Ct, University Plaza and Sugar Hill in our crime stats isnt really an accurate representation.

The reason Im a little defensive, BTW, is because you basically called me out. I live here with my wife and two little girls. For the record, I have never once felt that my wife or children were in danger, and they have far more friends here than we ever had when we lived in the southside area.

Totally understand on the defensive part.  I was the same way about my house in Riverside.  When my sister (who lives in a country suburb outside the city limits of Murfreesboro, TN) criticized my house saying that it looked like it was "in a bad neighborhood" and she didn't "feel comforatable" with her kids staying there for a week, I was more than a bit upset.  I think I may have even said something to the effect of, "...sure, anything to you looks dangerous when you don't have cows and corn stalks for neighbors!" 

I don't understand a lot about those other areas you mentioned.  Everything looks relatively close to one another.  I mean, is it the equivalent of saying (using what I know as a comparison, not for an instance saying any of this is factual) anything east of Park St. is good and anything West is bad, or is more like street level; any houses on Belvedere Ave. are good, anything on Talbot is bad, Olga is good, College is bad, etc.?

[downtownparks]

BTW, I used my corner at 5th and Laura and grabbed the crime stats, and compared them with a random place in Riverside. I used Herchel and Stockton, its near the river, and in what I would think would be a nice part of Riverside. The stats might be surprising to you...

5th and Laura
Assault / Battery   6
Burglary / Other  7
Burglary / Residential   7
Burglary / Vehicle   7
Murder   0
Robbery   6

Herschel and Stockton
Assault / Battery   6
Burglary / Other   4
Burglary / Residential   6
Burglary / Vehicle   13
Murder   0
Robbery   3

[lindab]

We own a home on Herschel near Stockton. All it takes is one of those events to happen to you and you have a new attitude. I would never leave until they cart me off to the dementia center but as an "almost statistic" happened to me, I am more careful and suspicious than before. I do think women are more prone to worries than men and for good reason.

[Johnny]

Wait am I being called out too? I live in Springfield with my wife and infant son and I do care about their safety, if it was as you believe, we would not live here.

Bike Jax nailed it, IMO. However, you do seem to have your mind made up, which is fine. I just feel that your opinions of our neighborhood may be based off some common misconceptions and past years struggles. The stats for instance mentioned above are skewed by the surrounding areas for the most part (ie. Lincoln Ct). I do not see any crime and trust me, I look for it. I have very little foot traffic on my road other than the people walking their dogs or a baby in a stroller.  As I mentioned in my previous post, my mother in-law that is visiting continues to tell us (still, which I think is her hinting that she wants to live with us  , sorry not gonna happen!!) how peaceful it is on our street and that she would love to live here (she was afraid of it and wanted us to reconsider when we first moved in a few years ago).


By the way, I live on E. 6th in a Queen Anne/Vernacular style home 

[zoo]

Called me out, too. One in elementary, one in pre-K. Living on the east side of Main.

Second_Pancake, love to meet you at a local party. You have a house in Riverside, but are living in Baymeadows? I've got bike storage issues, too, but when it comes to urban or suburban, I'm the genuine urban article.

[downtownparks]

Well, at least we are all negligent together.

[second_pancake]

Called me out, too. One in elementary, one in pre-K. Living on the east side of Main.

Second_Pancake, love to meet you at a local party. You have a house in Riverside, but are living in Baymeadows? I've got bike storage issues, too, but when it comes to urban or suburban, I'm the genuine urban article.

~sighs~  Alas, yes I am.  I can't be defined by where I am physically located.  My soul is made up of heart pine flooring, staircases worn thin as veneer, front porches, sidewalks, pocket parks and skyscrapers  

We both had our places before we got married, his was bigger, and though I was reluctant to move, he was even more reluctant to reduce his living area by 1000 sq ft.  Space and the realization that we'd possibly be spending the rest of our lives living apart won out   So, now I own a house that sits vacant with a For Sale sign in the yard in a depreciating market (in a neighborhood that I absolutely love), on which I pay a mortgage every month while I live in a house in a neighborhood filled with old farts that think for some reason weeds in our yard are what is causing the property values to decrease   If I sound bitter, it's because I am.

[second_pancake]

Incidently, my mind is NOT made up...to whomever said that.  That is why I continually find myself driving around Springfield.  That's why I keep looking up crime stats.  That's how I ended up finding this forum (I googled Springfield trying to find more info on it and check up on its progress).  If anything, I'm trying to find reasons TO live there.  The price is right for the amount of house and the location is perfect, but it still just doesn't feel right when I'm there.  I don't like the way it looks, the lack of business and the ratio of degenerates to civilized people on the main drags.

I've often said if I were a multi-millionaire, I'd buy up all the buildings along Main St., completely reface them, then sell them as-is to any reputable business person that comes along so they're occupied.  Bottom line, burglar bars, liquor stores, vacant buildings, and crumbling facades do nothing to attract residents.  If Main St. looked more like King and Park, 5 Points, Riverside Ave., Edgewood - First Block, that would be dramatic.  But, you guys already know all this.  It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

Like I said, I've tried on several occasions to find reasons to move there, and while the 'pro' side of my list is growing, the 'cons' still outweigh them.  Fill Main St. with a coffee shop, a bakery, a cutesy gift shop, a couple of clothing stores (a really good one would be Johnny Cupcakes www.johnnycupcakes.com), an ice cream parlor, a furniture store or an independent interior designer's shop, and a small grocery store, then you've got something;-)  Even if you guys just organized a paint-a-thon where in the dark of night you all just started painting the buildings (yes, I know it would be illegal, but it's for the greater good damnit) to look fresh and new....don't know, just hoping all this would happen a little faster I suppose. 

[jason_contentdg]

It just seems to make more sense to take care of the main places people see when driving through, first, then focus on the residential streets.  It really doesn't matter how great a row of houses looks 3 streets off the main road.  No one is even going to venture down there when their first impression is that of vagrancy, crime, and poverty.

As residents of Springfield and not developers we can't really start on main street, finish that, and then start working on our homes.  For the developers to come, we residents have to do our part and live in the neighborhood.  So, just let us continue doing what we do, the retail will come...and then you'll be able to move in.    Meanwhile, we'll all continue to love our neighborhood.