Toxic past haunts Hogans Creek's future

[Dan B]

First of all, Dan, no, it wasn't aimed at you, you didn’t even pop into my head when I posted it. and Second, this indicates a fear that contaminated ground water may get into the building and also other controls on the adjacent property.  It sounds like, yes, there is contamination, and yes, it can be controlled and will be controlled by the methods described. If the controls are in place, then yes, a day care could be there without an issue.

Perhaps if you posted the entire study, people could see what is really being said.

Meanwhile, yes, we need another dirt filled parking lot in the urban core, so just tear the place down and let it sit.  No, let’s at least try to make sure the site is actually used for something worthwhile. 

If anyone wants to read the report, it is a public records, and available at the DEP website for downloading. Thats how I got it.

[Dan B]

Strider the report couldnt have been more clear.

"No further action with engineering and institutional controls"

Way to gloss over the findings.

Its too bad your hatred for me has blinded you so much to the problems of cleaning up the creek. Its clear your far more interested in continuing a personal vendetta, then cleaning the park, not that your opinion means much anyway.

[Dan B]

Interesting article on Jacksonville.com


http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-22/story/toxic_past_haunts_hogans_creek%E2%80%99s_future

Jacksonville’s Confederate Park and other land along Hogans Creek could become a Superfund pollution cleanup site, training federal attention on century-old contamination downtown.

Although that could eventually solve a problem deferred for many years, in the short term it complicates efforts of neighbors and city officials, who want to restore the creek’s role as an amenity linking Springfield to the central business district.

“We wouldn’t invest a great deal of money in a city property that we would then have to dig up and remediate,” said Misty Skipper, an aide to Mayor John Peyton.

The mayor mentioned planning for a Hogans Creek greenway during a talk last month about positioning the city for economic recovery by using available resources. That plan is expected to be ready in late March, Skipper said.

The city will keep trying to make other parts of the creek more attractive and useful, she said, but it could delay projects near the park until pollution issues are settled.

The Superfund label would put the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in charge of deciding how to repair environmental damage around a site east of Main Street, where coal was converted into natural gas, starting in the 19th century.

The ground there contains coal tar, a cancer-causing material thought to have contaminated ground water entering the creek.

The full extent of the pollution isn’t clear. The affected area includes vacant commercial buildings south of the creek and part of the park on the creek’s north bank.

Water in the creek could pose a means for people to come into contact with the pollution, but walking through the park is safe, said Mike Fitzsimmons,  an administrator with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

EPA could end up helping finance some work at the site, although responsibility for repaying costs will fall back on owners of the property, including Jacksonville’s taxpayers.

“We’ve got an extensive area of contamination,” said Brian Dougherty, another state environmental administrator. “We’re talking a multimillion-dollar cleanup here. So having EPA able to step in and hopefully provide some funding for it is really a benefit.”

Coal tar pollution has been identified in that area since at least 1993, when a city-financed study for a stormwater project reported contamination in soil and in sediment in the creek. That report recommended the city’s lawyers be brought into planning for handling that contamination.

Skipper said it wasn’t clear Friday whether that had happened 17 years ago.

People interested in the creek have been encouraged by recent talk about a greenway, said Jennifer Holbrook, a Springfield resident who said she was “delighted” by the city’s current efforts to blend ideas from government agencies, neighborhood interests and others.

But tapping the waterway’s potential has been difficult before, she said.

“I think part of that comes from the [Confederate] park … the inability to do anything with it, in part because of contamination,” she said.

“Different departments have worked on it at different times and they have never coordinated their efforts. And now it’s been left in this deteriorating state for so long that it’s a white elephant. I think everybody is afraid to see what the real cost is going to be.”

It’s not clear yet exactly how far the coal-tar pollution reaches, Dougherty said, and it’s far too early to decide the cost and means of handling the site.

The EPA usually proposes new sites for the Superfund program’s National Priorities List twice a year, in the spring and fall, Dougherty said. The next proposals will be made in March, but EPA’s review of Confederate Park probably won’t be ready then, said Barbara Alfano, an EPA project manager.

The state agency supports putting the site on the Superfund list, and is writing a brief to that effect, Dougherty said.

The area known to have some contamination straddles the creek, reaching southward to the closed and deteriorating Park View Inn off State Street, Dougherty said.

The owners don’t expect EPA action to affect that site very much, though, said Robert Van Winkel, vice president of Park View Inns  Inc. He said the hotel is expected to be demolished within months, and the owners want to build a three-story parking garage with ground-level retail space.

Skipper said greenway plans the city is developing represent just a first step in addressing the creek’s needs. She said a longer-term process of restoring the waterway’s environmental health will take years longer, but that there’s no cost or timetable yet for either.

However the EPA handles the site, Skipper said, “the end result is going to be the same, which is that at some point, the contamination is going to have to be remediated.”

[zoo]

It should also be noted that the Aerostar environmental report quoted here was contracted and paid for by the owner of the Park View Inn property, not by the City, and not by any other independent public agency.

[strider]

 

It should also be noted that the Aerostar environmental report quoted here was contracted and paid for by the owner of the Park View Inn property, not by the City, and not by any other independent public agency.

Dan B: From DEP report released in 2008

It is a DEP legal  report, is it not?  So it is valid for this site, correct?  Seems like the owner of the building did the correct thing and had an approved site survey done by an approved and certified contractor.  And who would the city or other public agency hire?  An outside contractor like Aerostar?

While one can imply that it was done with the best interests of the owner in mind, it was also done according to federal guidelines by a federally approved contractor and therefore is a valid report as to the conditions of the site and the approved and accepted ways to remediate or control that site.

[Dan B]

So you are submitting that the site is perfectly fine, and has no impact on the creek or surrounding parks. Gotcha. Check, no problem.

It seems that the author of this piece should be informed. Nothing to see here. Move it along.

[Dan B]

Nope. Never.

The site that I and several others had talked about was north of the Basketball courts, over on Blvd, it is publicly owned, and has no buildings on it.

But thanks for trying to, once again, smear me by making it seem as though I have personal interests in this site. I do not.

[Dan B]

You do realize that Hogans creek is polluted pretty much from top to bottom, by many different sources, right?

[Dan B]

From a blog entry in 2006

Due to the ash contamination in Schell Park, the park’s future is very much up in the air. Until some form of remediation, or cap is completed, the park is an unusable site for any sort of recreation.

[Dan B]

I do, in fact.  Something youve never wanted to talk about before

Im aware that your site is the opposite end of springfield from the hotel,

Just wonder why hes an asshole for doing the same thing you are proposing to do with the skatepark.

What the hell are you talking about, I have never claimed the Park View is responsible for the entire creeks ills. This is something you gave birth to, as a way to smear me.

There is a pond that was allegedly filled in with trash at 4th and Pearl, there was once an auto body that sat at McKissick And Laura, there is ask contamination in Schell and McPherson Park.

Not to mention the problem with Fecal Coliforms and other bacteria, the source of which has never been identified conclusively.

Im sorry you didnt sit in countless hours of meeting with DEP, ACoE, Health, State, and City people listening to the laundry list of problems.

[Dan B]

Its interesting to watch you spend so much time quoting other peoples posts, so you can nail them on being wrong later. For that reason alone, its entertaining watching you go back and edit your posts when you get info wrong.

Now that I have made a sarcastic post about opening a daycare on the Park View site, I am now on record as wanting a daycare in the parks?

You are so disingenuous, its laughable.

[Dan B]

From a blog entry in 2006

Due to the ash contamination in Schell Park, the park’s future is very much up in the air. Until some form of remediation, or cap is completed, the park is an unusable site for any sort of recreation.

Nope, I guess not.

[strider]

So you are submitting that the site is perfectly fine, and has no impact on the creek or surrounding parks. Gotcha. Check, no problem.

It seems that the author of this piece should be informed. Nothing to see here. Move it along.

Ok, Dan B, no, I did not say that. I was taking offense at the implication by Zoo that this report was somehow invalid because the owner of the site paid for it.  My point was, it had to be done under federal guidelines, just like if it had been paid for by the city.

This report has to do with the Park View Inn site. It does talk about adjacent sites.  It does not talk about the Hogan Creek issues. Why would it?

But, let's take a look at a few things you posted from the report: (I can’t cut and paste them for some reason, but…)

It does state that six (6) JEA wells are close enough to be effected.  It also states that no real data as to whether they are effected is available.  One thing we can say is that the water is treated and tested by the city and so it passes their standards and therefore the water we drink is not contaminated by this site.  Or at least we hope not.  From this one paragraph, we can’t be 100% sure, we can only hope for the best.

This study did indeed find contamination, no one can argue that.

It is also stated that a discussion occurred between  Aerostar (the company hired to do the survey), the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, and the site owners, meaning the survey results were reviewed by the disinterested (for development purposes) third party, the state, and they agreed on the types of controls and the finding of the site survey. 

Overall, it does seem that the suggested controls will do their jobs and make this site safe to use.

As it is adjacent to the park and we can not see any real information about contamination at the park, we can only assume that this site does not or is at least not expected to severely impact the Hogan’s Creek Project.

However, only time will tell, as even this most recent articles says: “The full extent of the pollution isn’t clear. The affected area includes vacant commercial buildings south of the creek and part of the park on the creek’s north bank.” and “It’s not clear yet exactly how far the coal-tar pollution reaches, Dougherty said, and it’s far too early to decide the cost and means of handling the site.”

So it seems like we all have to wait for more information to be released if not further studies to be done as far as Hogan’s Creek Park.  However, from the 2008 DEP approved report, it seems that the Park View Inn site is ready to be used.

[Dan B]

wow.  it just hurts watching the squirming.   In a visceral kind of way.

Yeah, boy you got me alrighty. Oh sure, the creek and parks are still a shithole, but you managed to prove that The Park View is a gleaming gem among the otherwise screwed up, environmentally destroyed area.

Congrats.

[Springfield Girl]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I've interpreted the info we've received over time. There is contamination under the Park View Inn. The PV site may be remediated by filling the basement in with concrete but that won't necessarily stop the contamination underneath from continueing to leach into surrounding areas. Problem fixed for the PV but most likely not for the creek or surrounding sites. As far as Zoo's post, I took it that she was saying the report was done by the owner, not the city to show that the owner wasn't being railroaded by an outside party.