Toxic past haunts Hogans Creek's future

[nvrenuf]

people have tried to post valid ideas, but the one member continues to try and flame the thread

This thread was lost a looooong time ago.

[Miss Fixit]

Yesterday the EPA announced its National Priorities List, naming ten new final superfund sites and proposing others.  Hogans Creek was not on the list but Kerr-McGee Chemical Corp, a 31 acre site on the western banks of the St. Johns River in downtown Jacksonville, is. 

//www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/npt/nar1806.htm

[chris farley]

I believe that the creek is much much more than a clean up problem. Until 1906 the area now covered by Confederate Park and the dog park was a swamp with deep cypruss ponds.  I believe somewhat similar to the wetlands or tidal basins you see on the way to Amelia Island.There were saw mills close to the area, at least three, and I believe it was possible to come into the area by water maybe even bringing the lumber to the mills. It was filled in because even then it was considered a health issue, during the dry season when the wetlands were less wet, it was considered an eysore. Just as the Israelis are now finding out that it was a mistake to fill in a wetland and are now trying to recover it, I believe that not only are you fighting the man made contamination (and it IS there, right up to State) but nature itself.

[fsu813]

"Yesterday the EPA announced its National Priorities List, naming ten new final superfund sites and proposing others.  Hogans Creek was not on the list but Kerr-McGee Chemical Corp, a 31 acre site on the western banks of the St. Johns River in downtown Jacksonville, is."  


- do they update this list annually?

[zoo]

Twice annually actually; I believe they are Spring and Fall deadlines.

[billy]

What would it take to place Hogans Creek on the list?

[zoo]

DEP recommendation?

[Miss Fixit]

What would it take to place Hogans Creek on the list?

I believe that COJ lobbied for inclusion of Kerr-McGee and could do so for Hogan's Creek.

[billy]

When you say COJ, what City of Jacksonville entity?

[Dan B]

Guys, guys, guys. You have it all wrong. Hogans creek is pristine. there is NO pollution, especially not from former industrial sites along the creek.

[Miss Fixit]

Guys, guys, guys. You have it all wrong. Hogans creek is pristine. there is NO pollution, especially not from former industrial sites along the creek.

Why go there, Dan B?  Let's keep this thread on a positive track.

[zoo]

Kerr-McGee is privately owned? Park View Inn site is also, but the Hogan's Creek parks system is not.

[strider]

 Regardless of what some may wish to believe, the Park View Inn site has a valid and apparently approved plan in place to allow it to be used.  Which is all that has been pretty much been said by some of us.  We apparently do not know how this plan may or may not effect Hogan's Creek clean-up at this point.

There have been preliminary plans made to rehab the Hogan's Creek park system.  While I have not read all of this plan, I would assume that the plan would have addressed the contamination issues as the park is known to have and has been known to have contamination issues.  If the current plan that has been worked on does not have the contamination issues addressed, it needs to be thrown out and the planning started over. 

I'm not sure why you would want the site on the EPA’s  "Most wanted" list, except in hopes that someone else would pay for the clean-up.  From very limited past experience, the current property owner (in this case, the taxpayers) will still end up with paying the majority of the cost anyway. As I understand it, having it on that list may take away some of the control of how it is done and what we end up with.  That may not be the best solution to the problem.

[zoo]

I'm not sure why you would want the site on the EPA’s  "Most wanted" list, except in hopes that someone else would pay for the clean-up.  From very limited past experience, the current property owner (in this case, the taxpayers) will still end up with paying the majority of the cost anyway. As I understand it, having it on that list may take away some of the control of how it is done and what we end up with.  That may not be the best solution to the problem.

Agree. Clock is ticking on COJ to prove to DEP they are moving forward on it, or, per the article, DEP will likely recommend it for NPL inclusion in the Fall. Question to the taxpayer is "Do you want to clean it now in xx time for $$? Or do you want to clean it later in xxxxxxx time for $$$$$$$?"

[Dan B]

Guys, guys, guys. You have it all wrong. Hogans creek is pristine. there is NO pollution, especially not from former industrial sites along the creek.

Why go there, Dan B?  Let's keep this thread on a positive track.

Frustration, mostly. I worked for the better part of three years educating myself on the issues surrounding the creek. Meeting with countless people from DEP, the Army Core of Engineers, COJ, health dept, ect, ect, only to be told that Im a liar by someone who, gasp, wasnt at a single one of those meetings.

Keep in mind, we are talking about REALLY bad stuff. Carcinogens, and toxins.

Hogans creek cannot be cleaned up without addressing the industrial contamination that pollutes the sites along its shores. ALL of the sites!, including former autobodys, filled in ponds, and yes, coal gasification sites that are so clean that a basement must be filled with cement to make the site usable. Point blank, and Period. No amount of word twisting, hand wringing, or misdirection changes any of this. This has become a point of personal attacks, and back and forth, when the one thing you would think EVERYONE wants, is a creek that isnt a contaminated cess pool.

This thread will no doubt spin out control again, but for those who ACTUALLY want to know, dont take my word for it. Talk to the city. Talk to the DEP. Get your own information.