Esplanade

[British Shoe Company]

If it could be 1/2 the success that that St. Johns Town Center has been, it would be great for North St. Johns County, and the residents who live in that area!  There is no recession at the SJTC!

[thelakelander]

If the Esplanade isn't dead, its indefinitely delayed.  There is also a recession at SJTC.  None of those long rumored department stores (Macy's, Nordstroms, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc.) that were locks to open at SJTC have showed up.

[British Shoe Company]

Delayed for sure!  SJTC is packed, even when it is raining.  What a success it has been.  It has exceeded my expectations.   I do think Macy's is coming to town.  They are advertising here is why I believe that.    I do not know when Esplanade will break ground, or be completed either. 

[British Shoe Company]

St. Johns commission paves another step in International Golf Parkway project

    * By Peter Guinta
    * Story updated at 5:35 PM on Friday, Feb. 5, 2010

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St. Johns County
This 580-acre wooded parcel off International Golf Parkway could turn into a new development.

A request by a Jacksonville real estate firm to change the county's future land use map to develop a 580-acre wooded parcel off International Golf Parkway into shopping, offices and housing was unanimously approved Tuesday by the St. Johns County Commission.

The applicant, The Nine Mile Gang, wants to build 300 multi-family housing units, 385,000 square feet of retail space and 97,500 square feet of office space on pasture and wetlands north of IGP and east of Interstate 95.

St. Augustine attorney George McClure of McClure Bloodworth, representing the developers, said the approvals requested mean only that the project's plans would be reviewed by the Florida Department of Community Affairs.

"Any development on our site would (still) need County Commission approval," McClure said.

The property has 188 acres of wetlands. The St. Johns County Planning & Zoning Agency approved the project 5 to 1 on Oct. 15.

A previous project, a high-end retail shopping complex called Esplanade, was planned for that same property in 2007.

But developers Ben Carter and the Devlin Group - builders of the successful St. Johns Town Center in Duval County - halted Esplanade in 2008. That project consisted of 1,400 homes, 1.4 million square feet of office space, 850,000 square feet of retail space and an 110-bed hotel.

The $28 million that Devlin and Carter set for road improvements was never raised and the work never done.

For this project, the Nine Mile Gang promises a total of $32.5 million - $12.6 million to widen IGP from I-95 to a point 1,000 feet east of the project entrance, and $19.8 million for entrance and exit ramp improvements at I-95 and IGP.

McClure also said the improvements would include flattening the sharp, dangerous curve separating the commercial area of east IGP from the tree-covered, two-lane highway through Twelve Mile Swamp to U.S. 1.

Vice Chair Ken Bryan said he'd "love to see the (same) tax base (as the St. Johns Town Center) in St. Johns County," and Commissioner Ray Quinn said his concerns included the traffic impact on Nine Mile Road, the project's environmental impact and the opinion of the neighbors.

McClure said the neighbors were excited about the project.

"This looks like the last developable piece in this area," Commissioner Cyndi Stevenson said. "This is appropriately located and we should give them a chance with the (Department of Community Affairs)."

No building permits will be issued until IGP is four lanes.

In public comment, David Wiles of Crescent Beach said the Nine Mile Gang project could become another high-profile failure like Twin Creeks, SilverLeaf and Esplanade, all fatally wounded by the busted housing market and credit crunch.

"This county does not have a generalized need (for this development)," Wiles said.

McClure said the developers bought the property in 1985, when it was once part of a 1,200-acre parcel.

The county and state approvals will "facilitate the ability to develop this property when the market turns around," he said. "There is very little affordable housing in that area. I see this area as becoming the future business downtown of St. Johns County."

[Jason]

^ Repost. 

See this thread for the topic.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.0.html

[British Shoe Company]

Strand vs Escambia County ruling saying voters had to vote on TIF's.  That  Florida  Supreme Court decision hurt Devlin, and contributed to his financial demise. (Along w/ The Cove, and the Weston, and several other projects) The Supreme Court has reversed it's decision since then.  County Comm's can now issue "TIF"'s.   

[donisarockiesfan]

I stated this in another thread as well, but why in the hell would any store like Macy's , Bloomingdales, etc. locate in the world golf village area when Nocatee's town center is beginning to take shape? The demographics of Ponte Vedra, Julington Creek , and Polencia make for a much more enticing pull for a high end retailer and the fact that Nocatee has been so well planned with roads already in place makes it a no brainer as far as I am concerned. World Golf Village will do well with a Walmart and a Target, but I just don't see a high end retailer coming to the Jacksonville area anywhere other then Nocatee or SJTC.

[reednavy]

Why'd a big named retailer go to a town center that has barely anything there to begin with? As you can see at the SJTC, retailers want to be close to others to compete for their share of the shoppers. Nocatee only has a couple hundred residential units, a Publix and an office building right now in all honesty.

As is the case with the WGV, Nocatee has nowhere near the population to justify any significant retailers that you find at the SJTC right now, or in the short term.

This latest economic recession has and is still teachign retailers a tough lessont hat you can't throw up a new store in an area that has yet to prove it necessary.

So, as with the WGV, Nocatee will probably not be built as was originally planned because the freckin bottom fell out of a rather speculative residential market, which hurts the overall plan.

[donisarockiesfan]

Thats where you would be wrong. Nocatee is not like any other development. The Davis family considers Nocatee to be a big part of their legacy here and is not in this for the short term. Any other developer and this whole Nocatee thing would be a bust. They have pored a LOT of money into this development and have done a spectacular job. The economy will come back and when it does Nocatee is poised to be the place to be for years to come in Jacksonville. If you haven't been down this way, come and check it out. I bought a home here in Coastal Oaks and I think it is just amazing what they have done here already.

[buckethead]

They continue to build. Few houses but they are still popping up.

[reednavy]

Thats where you would be wrong. Nocatee is not like any other development. The Davis family considers Nocatee to be a big part of their legacy here and is not in this for the short term. Any other developer and this whole Nocatee thing would be a bust. They have pored a LOT of money into this development and have done a spectacular job. The economy will come back and when it does Nocatee is poised to be the place to be for years to come in Jacksonville. If you haven't been down this way, come and check it out. I bought a home here in Coastal Oaks and I think it is just amazing what they have done here already.

I've driven through there plenty of times and am far from impressed. Basically another "signature" Florida development of stucco homes with lots of grass and fewer trees. The only brownie points I give them is for "preserving" the Intracoastal frontage.

For Nocatee to become the place to be a dethrone SJTC, it'll take a lot, and I mean A LOT more than what is going on down there now. To get the stores that SJTC has now, the metro area as a whole needs to double or triple it's population in order for retailers to look at setting up another location. I'm talking about the high-end retailers, not the typical, every mall stuff.

[buckethead]

SJTC exists on a  former dairy pasture, and what used to be one of the most picturesque views in Jax.

From I-95 to the Beach is now desired real estate. It took about 20 years.

[Sportmotor]

SJTC exists on a  former dairy pasture, and what used to be one of the most picturesque views in Jax.

From I-95 to the Beach is now desired real estate. It took about 20 years.

Why have picturesque when we can have another American Eagle and Starbucks?

[copperfiend]

When was it a dairy pasture?

[buckethead]

Circa 1989 even later IIRC.