The SPARlisted Convenience Stores

[cindi]

we have tried the air horns.  the neighbors really don't need sleep.

[Springfield Girl]

Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now. 

[Stenodave]

Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now.  

So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here.  Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW!  After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work.  As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.

I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work.  Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best.  Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day.  Still nothing illegal.  So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".

As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?".  I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open.  Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached".  I'm not lying.  This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of.  While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.

It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight.  In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted.  Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.

[Stenodave]

Here is a picture of the street going up to the BP...I can see where the BP has really brought the place down ...


Huh the only trash I could find was at the vacant houses behind and across the street. I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and these speak volumes.

Might want to rethink your statement about your pictures.  I guess you could say this is as clear as Night and Day?

[uptowngirl]

Here is a picture of the street going up to the BP...I can see where the BP has really brought the place down ...


Huh the only trash I could find was at the vacant houses behind and across the street. I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and these speak volumes.

Might want to rethink your statement about your pictures.  I guess you could say this is as clear as Night and Day?

Not at all. Where is all the trash and crime this store is producing? I only saw trash at the two vacant homes and an SRG lot that had hub caps and mad dog bottles on it.

Did you and Lisa call the police? Did you ask harrass the black lady in sweats to leave?  The four guys in back....where they on the store property or at the boarded up house? Did you call the cops or approach them?  I have seen those four dealers tand they work from the vacant house behind the BP. The pump that is not working was shut off earlier in the day because some lady in a mini van forgot to take the hose out of her tank when she left and gas went everywhere. 

I think you may have drunk the kool-aide for sure Dave. Your own pictures show nothing but one black lady in sweats (if you want to see a real hooker go to the Shell- this looks like a homeless person) standing on the street corner (not the stores property) other than Lisa talking to some black dood, I see only a couple cars at the store- not tons of people standing out there? What the hell am I missing? How long did you stay? Did ya'll stay long enough for the beer selling time to expire, or was that the whole point- stop in at the last minute to get full maximum effect . I expect more from Lisa at least.

Seriously some drunk doods and one guy asking if you want to buy some drugs? I get this over on 11th in a residential area a block from an elemnetary school. This is the urban core and not a gated community, at least not yet!

Again- anyone call the police? Anyone harrass the poor sweat wearing hooker?


You could do this same experiment in Riverside, and come up with the very same story at their one and only gas station.

Why do people move to the core and expect to live like they would in the Links?

Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now. 

So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here.  Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW!  After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work.  As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.

I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work.  Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best.  Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day.  Still nothing illegal.  So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".

As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?".  I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open.  Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached".  I'm not lying.  This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of.  While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.

It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight.  In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted.  Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.

Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now. 

So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here.  Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW!  After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work.  As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.

I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work.  Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best.  Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day.  Still nothing illegal.  So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".

As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?".  I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open.  Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached".  I'm not lying.  This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of.  While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.

It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight.  In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted.  Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.

Nope not changing my stance at all! You and Lisa ( and I have to say I am a little disappointed in Lisa) go right at beer sellling cut off time for maximum impact and this is the worst you could find?  Eight people in the store doing nothing illegal, one lone woman in sweats (not on the BP property) that MUST be a hooker, and four guys outback (?) on or off the store proeperty not sure, but know there are four doods staying in the vacant house behind the BP-in any case you couldn't get a picture of them for some reason. All of your pictures show an empty store- I see one car at the pumps, one car parked and an empty lot. Where are all the people? Where is the shock and awe?
If you want to see real hookers (hookers don't wear sweats dood) go to the shell, they work in packs and you can tell what they are selling by the garments on the lower half of their body- hell we saw some with NO garments ont he lower half of their body). Want to see real drug dealers and gangsters, not some drunks buying their last beers of the night? Head on over to the shell- be careful though they carry at that store.

The streets are clean and quiet during the day, and from your pictures they look pretty clean and quiet at night too. In fact the only dirty and dangerous places I could find on that block were the two vacant houses were most activity occurs, and the vacant SRG lot that was filled with trash.


Did ya'll go to the "really scary low income housing" up the street? Was that as terrifying?  Was there a grandma in sweats out front selling herself or drugs too?

See I am from an urban area, born, grown, and raised, so what I find acceptable may not be acceptable for someone from the burbs. People of a different color, income, or culture do not "scare" or threaten me. I may not "approve" of some of these actions, but hey-it's a free world and they are not breaking the law. I have had guys come up and ask me if I wanted to buy drugs at Andrew Robinson. I don't like it- but I don't want to shut the school down.

I will share your story with the owner, so he can talk to his night manager. But, I was expecting some shock and awe and got a little old lady in sweats and empty store parking lot....

I am still glad to have you as a neighbor, but if this shocks you I am not sure you are ready for the core.

Hey anyone over by the Shell wanna switch stores?

[uptowngirl]

Dave- you sure that is not a pic of you talking to Lisa?

[strider]

"I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer” comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well."

- and that about sums up the difference in perspective here.

And you forgot:

I will ask that if he is a “known drug dealer”, why they do not arrest him for that?

Your post makes it sound like I don't care, which was your purpose, the complete post says that I realize that just trespassing the guy who isn't doing anything but exercising his rights (as long as he is not drug dealing in my store) to purchase something, as is your right as well, accomplishes, well, just about nothing.  Trespassing someone does nothing but move them on a bit.  So rather than actually get the goods on the guy and arresting him for dealing drugs, the police ask a store owner to help them move him somewhere else.

Oh, I get it, you trespass someone and the police arrest him and if he has drugs on him, he goes to jail longer.  Except that if the police hasn’t been able to catch the guy with drugs on him before and so has to ask you to trespass him, the odds are pretty slim the guy is dumb enough to have the drugs on him.  So, we are back to all it does is move the guy on a bit.

Stenodave and Springfield girl.  You went looking for that activity and you found it.  No big surprise there. I can find the same things and I don’t have to wait for night time.  It does not lessen Uptowngirl’s posts nor what her pictures mean.

Did you happen to ask yourself why this obviously known activity was still going on?  Oh, wait, it was the store owners fault as he doesn’t cooperate with the police, who obviously are being so very successful in arresting these known drug dealers.  Of course, the attendant working the store at night could be part of the problem, or just afraid to do anything about it as, once again, the police have been so successful in arresting these known drug dealers.  I’m sure the police would be equally successful protecting the attendant if the guy trespassed was pissed and wanted to let the attendant know about it.

In the defense of the police, catching these guys is not as easy as one would hope.  In one SHACO meeting I went to, I felt the police were as frustrated as everyone else.  But blaming the store owner accomplishes what exactly? Makes you feel better?  It doesn’t solve the problem.

Uptown girl, your posts have said it better than I can.   

[Stenodave]

This is what I'm talking about.  People on here are just stubborn.  We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs.  How often has that happened to you anywhere?  Is this common place for you?  As far as the 4 guys in the back, did you want me to go up to them and ask them what they were doing and if they would pose for a picture?   Uptown Girl.  How about I give you my camera and you point it at 8 guys walking around in the parking lot, I don't have those kinds of balls, do you?  I shot what I could.  As far as asking if that was me in the picture, I hope that was meant in jest.  While you may say you are "urban" I'm sure I have been involved in the drug community about 1,000 times more then you.  Have you chased a drug dealer through a park at night in Haifa, Israel?  Have you served a warrant and kicked a door down in Haifa, Israel?  How about chasing a drug dealer via a high speed car chase through Tel Aviv?  Have you done drug interdiction off the coast of South America?  How about having to walk through the ranks of hookers when walking off a ship into a foreign country?  Yeah, I'm not thinking so.  I have done all of those.  So where does your qualification of dealing with drug dealers come from?  How many classes have you attended that taught you how to spot hostile people/environments?  I have attended numerous ones.  Ultimately, do you think SG will lie?  You may not agree with her opinions, but has she ever outright lied to you?  I think she has much more character than that.

Strider- as far as going at cut off time, that doesn't make propositioning someone for drugs anymore likely.

The part that bothers me most is that I'm telling you that I went down there and saw this with my own eyes.  Why the hell would I lie about something like this? What do I gain from this? And this further proves the point that when presented with something that is correct, the people on here still refuse to see the other side of things.

And, Hookers have NO dress code.  Just watch Cops, I'm sure you have seen that right?  Not all of them dress where you can see everything.  Some are just in a rush to make a buck to buy some drugs.

Lastly, on my way to drop SG off, we drove past the notorious Shell gas station and I have to say, there wasn't anything wrong with it.  I'm just being fair and honest.  I would have rather gone to that Shell over the BP, hands down.  I may have pulled into the Shell gas station at just the right time, but I will check it out again I'm sure.

[Stenodave]

As you would say Stephen. Reread my post. When I mentioned Swisher Sweets I said that wasn't illegal. And when I said watch cops, I didn't say I watch it. You crack me up Stephen. You are the one person I have met who is NEVER wrong. Practice what you preach Stephen. Read the post.

[uptowngirl]

This is what I'm talking about.  People on here are just stubborn.  We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs.  How often has that happened to you anywhere?  Is this common place for you?  As far as the 4 guys in the back, did you want me to go up to them and ask them what they were doing and if they would pose for a picture?   Uptown Girl.  How about I give you my camera and you point it at 8 guys walking around in the parking lot, I don't have those kinds of balls, do you?  I shot what I could.  As far as asking if that was me in the picture, I hope that was meant in jest.  While you may say you are "urban" I'm sure I have been involved in the drug community about 1,000 times more then you.  Have you chased a drug dealer through a park at night in Haifa, Israel?  Have you served a warrant and kicked a door down in Haifa, Israel?  How about chasing a drug dealer via a high speed car chase through Tel Aviv?  Have you done drug interdiction off the coast of South America?  How about having to walk through the ranks of hookers when walking off a ship into a foreign country?  Yeah, I'm not thinking so.  I have done all of those.  So where does your qualification of dealing with drug dealers come from?  How many classes have you attended that taught you how to spot hostile people/environments?  I have attended numerous ones.  Ultimately, do you think SG will lie?  You may not agree with her opinions, but has she ever outright lied to you?  I think she has much more character than that.

Strider- as far as going at cut off time, that doesn't make propositioning someone for drugs anymore likely.

The part that bothers me most is that I'm telling you that I went down there and saw this with my own eyes.  Why the hell would I lie about something like this? What do I gain from this? And this further proves the point that when presented with something that is correct, the people on here still refuse to see the other side of things.

And, Hookers have NO dress code.  Just watch Cops, I'm sure you have seen that right?  Not all of them dress where you can see everything.  Some are just in a rush to make a buck to buy some drugs.

Lastly, on my way to drop SG off, we drove past the notorious Shell gas station and I have to say, there wasn't anything wrong with it.  I'm just being fair and honest.  I would have rather gone to that Shell over the BP, hands down.  I may have pulled into the Shell gas station at just the right time, but I will check it out again I'm sure.

Yes, yes I do have those kind of "balls". We did it at the Shell station, and on Pearl, and on Perry, 10th st., 11th st., and on 7th st. I live downtown, of course I have balls. I have chased hookers and dealers down the street with "the pink lady" and have no issue confronting anyone as long as they do not have a gun pointed in my face. I confronted the dealers at Andrew Robinson- only after reapeated calls to JSO. How do you think I know the rule around Vice needing to make those arrests?

Aks yourself this- if YOU do not have the balls to confront why do you expect the store owner or night manager to have those "balls"? Welcome to the core Dave, there are drug dealers out there, they pop up in the strangest places. I am not being mean here my soon to be new neighbor, I am trying to open your eyes. I have lived in urban areas most of my life, I choose to continue to do so because I enjoy and revel in the diversity I find here. Do I want drug dealers or hookers roaming the streets? Hell no. I do my part to move them out,  but I certainly do not go out and do it on my own as ya'll are expecting this store owner (or his night manager as this seems to be the "hot time") to do. It is naive in the extreme, for you to believe one of them can harrass or just call the cops on these people. The fact that blunt wrappers are sold in the store is not what is pulling these characters to the store in the middle of the night, Andrew Robinson does not sell blunt wrappers and it is not open 24/7. I am not even trying to say that area is pure bliss- we all know that is not true. What I am trying to say is this:

*Boycotting a half way decent, needed business is just stupid
*Depending on the police to enforce the law won't work because of the silly rules they have in place, that are there because of the silly rules the prosecutor has in place
*selecting the one hour of high traffic time at the store and showing a vacant lot and a little ol'  sweat suited woman really proves nothing (except she needs someone to help her dress). Cops? that is your basis for determining hookers LOL!
*Working on the core issues (places around the store where the "real business" is taking place is the smarter route to take.
*lumping poor people who go and buy beer at 1:45 in the morning in with criminals (even in the snide funny way you did) is not only patronizing- it is half the fuel used to attack this neighborhood and SPAR in particular on a daily basis.

See I do not want to live in the suburbs, I do not want everyone to look like me, act like me, think like me, I want them to be unique, as I want their homes and cars to be unique. I want them to have all different types of experiences, opinions, and goals. I get that here.

I do not even have an issue with "cleaning up" the store (if there is truly something to clean up), what I do have a problem with Dave, is people taking the easiest route- blaming the owner and accusing him of participating in drug dealing and hooking (which is completely false) and telling me I am doing a disservice to the neighborhood by patronizing. If you or I do not go there, then all that is left is the people everyone finds so undesirable. This is where I live and if I need gas or Diet Dr, Pepper I will go to BP and get it- at 1AM or noon. no one is going to stop me. I will not turn over any part of my neighborhood to dealers or hookers. At the same time I do not just "assume" someone is a hooker because they are standing on the street corner at 1AM. I do not just "assume" a store owner is not only encouraging illegal behaviour, but also participating in it because a drug dealer approaches me while I am at their store. I do not presume it is the owner or managers sole responsibility to address the issue either. Tresspassing a known drug dealer is not the resolution, arresting the known drug dealer is. If he is a "known drug dealer" my first question is WHY IN THE HELL are the police asking someone to tresspass him? WHY IN THE HELL is he not in jail? Pushing enforcement of the law onto the property owner is very sketchy- it could be your sidewalk next and you have already stated yourself you do not have the balls to confront these dudes.

Let's get rid of this activity- we agree on this

How we get rid of it, we do not agree upon.

You are looking for the weakest subject in this cast of characters to take care of it (the store owner)- I am looking for the strongest (the police).

Now if JSO asks the owner if they can camp out there and arrest this scumbag- hey I am sure he would be fine with that. If they wanted his video I am sure he would be fine with that. But asking him to get in the middle of their war on drugs by tresspassing someone they (apparently) can't even arrest on their own- what the hell dave?

So see I am not blind, willful or stubborn. I get it. I disagree that this is the worst place in the neighborhood, but I get it. I just think the tact being taken to address it is an old tired worn out one. It seems very cowardly to me that everyone is blaming the owner for not taking steps that you, they, and even the police won't take.

[Stenodave]

About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?

[Stenodave]

Town. Read all my posts. I have not blammed the owner. So the generalized statement "you" doesn't aply to me. The one time I refrenced the owner is when I said he is still culpable for anything that happens at his store. That is all. Nothing about boycotting, never said anything about the workers, never said it wasn't JSO's duty to do more.

[uptowngirl]

About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?

I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?

[uptowngirl]

Town. Read all my posts. I have not blammed the owner. So the generalized statement "you" doesn't aply to me. The one time I refrenced the owner is when I said he is still culpable for anything that happens at his store. That is all. Nothing about boycotting, never said anything about the workers, never said it wasn't JSO's duty to do more.

This is true, that was FSU. The only reason I lumped "you" in was the post made early this morning seemed very patronizing. Seriously I am not blind, I just don't agree that the store or the owner is the issue. I also don't agree it is as bad as some have made it out to be. If we continue down the path of throwing business owners under the bus, try to get them shut down, and blame them for everything wrong in the neighborhood, we will be left with nothing but our houses and if you haven't read some of the other posts those houses are vanishing quickly too.

[Stenodave]

Actually Stephen, I already talked to a friend who is a cop and told him what happened. So don't assume to know what else I have and haven't done. So we meeting at 2am at the BP to start the tour? You can leave your car there, I will drive.

P.S.  The worker was behind some type of protective glass. You are showing your lack of knowledge of the actual place.