The SPARlisted Convenience Stores

[Stenodave]

About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?

I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?

I have my concealed weapons permit. I will bring the heat and a dog lol. I'm In Complete agreement about we need to get JSO more involved. That is the correct and only way to procede with this.

[Stenodave]

Well I'm done for the day. I'm exhausted, working nights suck and typing on this phone is driving me insane. See you later, you crime fighters!

First 40oz is on me Stephen!

[Stenodave]

I only have an hour but sounds good, was just thinking coverage wise. I'm fine with walking. See you tonight. I PM'd you.

And like I have said time and time again. I want to see both sides to every argument before I make up my mind. Uptown, want to go with us?

[fsu813]

Strider,

I thought that that one sentence:

"I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer” comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well."

was a fantastic illustration of the essence in the difference of perspective/judgement/values. The rest of your comment tried to explain/justify it, but it wasn't the "meat" of the comment.



Stephen,

"Now that youve told the cops, I bet they will be all over that immediately."

- difficult to do when the owner doesn't cooperate with JSO. hard to help someone that doesn't want to be helped.



Uptown,

"...continue down the path of throwing business owners under the bus, try to get them shut down, and blame them for everything wrong..."

- if he's not doing what he can to address it, then yes, he shares blame. And right now he's not doing what he can. Like I previously mentioned, if he was doing what he could then I would fully support him.

[Sportmotor]

Why would a store owner stop selling to someone who is giving him business. "He is a known drug dealer" well the store owner might not care, or agree with the laws. Besides business is business, most people dont care what other's do when it comes to personal sales.
*shrugs*

[fsu813]

"Its your block isnt it?"

- no.

"Why don't you get off your dead ass..."

- neighborhood issues take up a ton of my free time already. my wife can vouch for that (ha). so i won't be adding "stake out" to that list.

besides, you can't fix this problem for someone unless they want it to be fixed.

[fsu813]

"Well it sounds like you cant be helped.  You don't seem interested in helping yourself."

- you nailed it.

"I guess its more manly to call the old women and then bully the shop owners one at at time."

- it's like you're reading my mind.

"You talk a good game about what other people should be doing, dontcha?"

- the only actionable statement i've made was for the owner to do what he can to address to the problems. does that qualify?

[fsu813]

"I don't know FSU.  Why dont you go ask gramma, and get back to us on that."

- she said no.

"I can only tell you what the rest of us did when we were confronted with the same issues that you are describing, but that StenoDave and Lisa were apparently too scared to photograph."

- a very skittish dou indeed.

"We did something about it personally."

- well that's why you're the man, of course. sounds like you know exactly what to do. i'll drop off juice boxes every 4 hours while you chill up at the BP.

[uptowngirl]

I only have an hour but sounds good, was just thinking coverage wise. I'm fine with walking. See you tonight. I PM'd you.

And like I have said time and time again. I want to see both sides to every argument before I make up my mind. Uptown, want to go with us?

I am in!

[NotNow]

I am assuming that the store owner was asked to "trespass" the guy because he hangs around in front of or in back of the store at all hours for no apparent reason other than criminal.  I am also assuming that the beat Officer knows the guy and either has personal knowledge of his dealing, he has a criminal record of such, or both.  Why would any responsible businessmand refuse to keep this guy from loitering in front (or behind) of his business?  Is he buying that many cigars?  (And I don't believe that StephenDare! has any sales records from Swisher) 

Catching these guys is difficult for uniformed patrol for a number of reasons.  Community policing requires Officers to create a "hostile environment" for criminal behavior and to work with the community in making it harder for criminals to operate in their neighborhood.  Refusing to cooperate is your choice, but the reasons given here appear to me to be invalid. 

All of you are right in that the community MUST reject this behavior.  Call JSO when drugs are offered or any criminal act is observed.  DO NOT place yourself in a position of risk.  If you decide to walk around at night seeking to confront/observe criminality, be sure that you have a way to communicate (cell phone) and maintain situational awareness (where you are, street and cross street, what/who is behind you and around you)  As I have often done in the past, I would recommend a ride along with the evening or midnight beat Officer for a pretty good tour of the criminal "hot spots".  You will also understand why the Police can't be everywhere because of the number of calls that must be answered. 

[NotNow]

I understand.  I was referencing your statement that more swisher sweets are sold in Ponte Vedra than Springfield.  To be honest, I don't have sales records either.  My main point is that both sides here are really right, in that all residents must reject the thug criminality that attempts to use sites such as this.  I believe that the store owner has a RESPONSIBILITY to act when such attempts occur at his/her place of business. 

If these guys want to chill, they should do so in front of their own home or in an area not subject to such criminality.

[NotNow]

I have also toured the factory.  And pulled stake outs there.  Working the street as a Police Officer, I can tell you that Ponte Vedra does not have the same street presence of drugs as does Springfield.  While illicit drug use is common, the use of swisher sweets as a "blunt" is still not as common in PV as it is in the NW quadrant.  (Although white kids are trying their best). 

Loitering in a place for criminal reasons is illegal and it should be.  People can "chill" where they please so long as they are not commiting crimes.  If a community chooses to protect itself through the use of preventive actions, such as "no loitering" areas on private property by store owners or using municipal ordinances to ensure that isolated areas of our sidewalks are not used as open air drug markets, then why would you object to that?  These are legal, constitutionally tested methods to fight crime.  Isn't that what we all want? 

Your idea of "law enforcement" and "liberty" are as warped as your characterazation of my posts.  Your continuous habit of stating others opinions in the form of malicious lies has defined you as just another idealogue.  I have served a lifetime defending "liberty" and in the field of "law enforcement".  My education and training matches my experience.  Your right to comment does not provide you with any insight, and your dismissive and arrogant responses to others appears to be an indicator of your lack of sensitivity for others.  I do not want to turn this into another personal argument between us.  Just save the lying and personal attacks for someone else.

[cindi]

well now.  i would cut and paste the quotes that are "pertinent" but i'm just too lazy so i'll just have to work around the high notes.  1st - really, you don't think there is a dress code for hookers?  maybe not there on the east side but hands down - west side is the best side when it comes to our hooker wares, and there is a definite dress code.  check these youtube clips for a class on hooker bingo/etiquette http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doEsRFGo4wo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFIwP1gX9c. 
2nd - don't want to take pictures openly - really?  we do, but hey it's hampsterdam, no rules just right.  to the point that we have even had the hookers go running to the cops - to show just how much some of the jso officers know - we were told that it was against the law for us to take pictures of them walking the street - IT IS NOT.  there is no expectation of privacy when you are in the middle of the street literally exposing your vapid man part. if you can't get up in their face (keeping in mind the distance of their mace is a real important factor, oh and as uptowngirl can attest, you need to factor in the throwing distance of a full unopened beverage can)  then you will never run them off. 
as for the "the shell isn't that bad", smoke crack much? not sure when you came by but i will trade stores any day any time.  difference is, we don't have abandoned houses or the "hud" for them to deal in, hook out of right next to it - instead they use our yards and alleys (oh what fun to walk up on a couple bumping nasties in the alley or the daily used condom cleanup). if you want to know busy here is another youtube clip that will give you an idea of the actual traffic on the street at 3a (the clock is gmt) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFjb9NWXlGQ.  i have tons of pixs and movies but i think you get the point. 
oh, and yes, we call jso, at least 1 call per neighbor per night to the non emergency number (unless the shell is being robbed then we just watch cause it's costing them money).  and yes, we gave pictures to chief ross at shadco and were told by one of his finest that "that's what you get when you move to the jungle", we were also told by ross that there was just as big of a problem in queen's harbor (still amazed that every comparison of springfield is to queen's harbor) and basically told by him (ross) sucks being us - nothing they can do, blah, blah, blah. 

[ChriswUfGator]

This is what I'm talking about.  People on here are just stubborn.  We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs.  How often has that happened to you anywhere?

It's Springfield, come on. I had a tenant offer to pay me that way before. Idiot...didn't take a lot of detective work to figure out whose lease I would NOT be renewing that time. There are drug dealers and hookers around, it's just part and parcel of an up-and-coming urban area.

So once the Supreme High Command gets rid of the BP, what are we gonna do next? Rip up all the streets in Springfield, because there are drug dealers and hookers there too? What if a hooker is by the SPAR building? We gonna get rid of that too? LOL

The BP really isn't the issue. Take that same gas station, with its same inventory, and everything else, and transplant it to let's say San Jose Blvd., and you won't see any of this stuff around. It's not the gas station, it's just the area.

[cindi]

About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?

I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?

Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...

well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.