Anyone interested in true SPR community meeting?

[Dan B]

Joe, since when you do you give a crap what people think?

good one.  he really doesn't.  it is a great strength of his.

I agree, and thats really my point.

[Dan B]

its a pretty weak point.  One that people use most often to justify bullying others.

I will take your word on that, you know far more about bullying than I do.

[ChriswUfGator]

Joe, since when you do you give a crap what people think?

I don't think you have a whole lotta choice when people are coming up and saying "You have to leave now".

[cindi]

we still haven't heard any new dates or times for SHARP.

[Stenodave]

Seriously?  FSU813?  A meeting hosted by yourself would be like Golda Meir accepting an invitation hosted by uncle adolph.

Still, he is tryin to do something as insane as it might be, have to give him an honest effort star.
Attend Stephen, cant hurt and no since on passing on an oppratunity to discuss things in an adult manner

1.  there isnt a meeting planned.
2.  There will eventually be a board that reflects community consensus, and I will no doubt attend those meetings.  There is only one group of people that cannot get along with anyone else in the neighborhood or the city and that is the leadership group of SPAR.  All the rest of us get along and generally share a common vision.  It is inevitable that that sore will come to a head and burst.  In my opinion better sooner than later.  One thing is for sure:  As an organization, SPAR will not last very long being at war with everyone around it.

As a matter of fact, SPAR has already imploded and failed a couple of times over its history because of this very tendency.  While the name 'SPAR' continues to be used, this is actually the third organization to use it.

Jason, I know you don't really understand whats at stake for business people, or how much money and sorrow these terrible people have cost the community around them, but this isnt simply a matter of well lets kiss and make up.

The neighborhood is going to have to find a new balance.  And it wont find that balance by utilizing the worst examples of what went wrong with it in the first place.

So you aren't coming?  Is that what you are saying?  You wouldn't rather talk to people in person and see if you can make a change?  Oh, nevermind, you are saying would rather do it from behind a computer and just keep st iring things up instead of using every avenue you can to help the neighborhood, even if some think you are wrong.  Seems pretty immature to me.

Stephendare, after reading a lot of your posts, I'm just not sure how old you are...your grammar and vocabulary are amazing (I will give you some credit there) but when it comes to your posts, they start out with some point of views and then deteriorate into childish babbling and attacks.  It's this stuff that makes new people to the board (like myself) shy away from even reading/listening to anything you have to say because you do it in such a way that it destroys any credibility you are trying to gain.  It's almost a self-destructive trait. 

I have always prided myself on gathering as much information before making a decision, so, I get a lot of each side on this forum.  But honestly, you are slowing making it over to the column of someone that I don't even bother reading anymore because it is so hard to read between all the B.S.  I don't mind reading negative views along with the positive and give them a fair shot of convincing me of their points but you are just overboard.  You seem to have great investigative skills, please use them for good and just put out the information and your views and stop the name calling if you really want to make a difference.

[CS Foltz]

stevendare...............have you noticed just how many newbies have come on board since Springfield threads started up? I for one am really glad MJ has really galvinized that part of the world no matter which side or opinion is presented..........to me that is the whole point of a "Discussion Blog" and I am glad of it!

[Stenodave]

Well Stenodave.  Considering that your first four posts consist of you calling me names, Im sure you can understand how the urge to express yourself can occasionally leave you looking a bit like a jerk.

Im actually pretty active in the community around me, I would dare say more active than most.

Hopefully as you read more of the site, and look a little bit further back into the posts, you will yourself become a little more informed.

Thanks for coming to metrojacksonville.com however: new voices----especially the coherent kind are always welcome here.

You are free to interpret my post however you wish, but if you reread it, you will find that I state very positively that I intend on attending the consensus based meetings of the future.

For 8 years, I hoped that SPAR would become that group, however, in the past 4 months, I have been convinced by empirical evidence that it will never be able to do that under the current (apparently permanent) leadership.

I remain unoffended by your very aggressive posts, and hope that you find the time (not to mention the energy) to look a bit deeper before you rush to print with your own opinions.

Because of the wide diversity of opinions and personalities on this site, and the long term nature of some of those conversations, sometimes there are other elements to the responses within threads that are not obvious to the casual reader.  I assume that you have stumbled across a few of these threads.

One of the successful hijack strategies employed by a group of posters on the site involves bogging down a thread which discusses an issue they would rather not have publicized by bogging it down with personal invective.

One poster (who happens to be from Springfield in fact) in particular is notorious for doing this.  It is intentional on his part, and designed to subvert the discussion into a clash of personalities and deflect it away from the original issue.

To be honest, considering the attacking tone of your own posts, I assumed that you were engaging in the same thing.

I hope to discover otherwise.

Truly
Stephen.

Stephen, let me appologize for the personal attack and name calling.  I admit I was wrong.  I was just getting overwhelmed with the school yard antics that so many people on here seem to resort to using, and I could only take so much.  You had posted the most recent one and I may have directed it all at you unfairly.  

I have recently made an offer on a SRG home to be built and hopefully will become a resident if we can meet on a price.  I plan on starting a small buisness within the next year or so in Springfield as well.  I'm looking to open a court reporting firm in the area (on a side note, I would be willing to attend any meeting at no cost and do the transcription of the meeting and post them online of ANY meeting and make that available to the public) so it really concerns me to see that every side is so far apart on their views.

Stephen, once again I apologize about the personal name calling and attacks and promise to keep an open mind when reading your further posts.

[Stenodave]

StenoDave

Welcome to the neighborhood!

I hope for you and your family that you come to terms with the house!  Mack Bissette is a hell of a builder, from all that Ive seen of his firm's work.  Solid quality material and good worksmanship---certainly better craftwork than most of the horrible floridian standards of building.

As I stated in the post just above, the neighborhood is really really wonderful and its a magical place to live in most respects!  And I certainly accept your apology, even though I really wasnt offended.....

Anything I can do to help out, consider me at your service!

Stephen

Hey Stephen, not to stir the pot again, but I was going to follow you on twitter and I was reading some of your posts and was wondering what the reason behind the tweet on  3:29 PM Nov 20th, 2008 ?

[Stenodave]

They are great builders.

Not so great at social policy.  But that isnt the business they are in, so it works out.

Ok, just wondering.  Kind of caught me off guard.

[Springfielder]

Of all interested property owners, residential and commerical, in the neighborhood?

Not hosted by any particular neighborhood organization?

Just a general meeting, sans organization/business titles and labels?

At a "neutral" site?

A time to speak face to face and have honest discussions. Leave your baggage at the door?

With an unaffiliated moderator, to ensure appropriateness and disuade bias?

In the 2 years I've lived here, of which I've been really paying attention the last year or so.....there has been  more miscommunication, misunderstanding, intentional dishonesty, hurt feelings, over sensitivity, negative gossip, rumor spreading, and distrust between neighbors than I ever, EVER, could have expected.

This is counterproductive at best and, in my view, is an unnecessary counter-weight to all the good things here.

Speaking of of good things......the hardwork, time spent, money spent, energy spent, enthusiasm, vision, kindness, camaraderie, volunteerism, community involvement, attention to detail, and sense of togetherness by the neighborhood has far exceeded my expectations as well.

We are all adults here.

We all want a better Springfield.

The details may be different, but the general goal is the same. At least i'd like to think so.

I have no idea whatsoever if anyone would be interested, but i'm more than willing to find a location, time, and date, and moderator for such a meeting.

Heck, i'll provide refreshments too (as i'm sure it would be lengthy).

If anyone is interested, sincerely interested, please say so, either publically or in PM.

If enough are interested then I'll be more than happy to set it all up.

Thanks.

Just to add my two cents about a meeting to cure what you feel ails our hood...no, absolutely not, especially if it's hosted by you...someone who doesn't seem to be able to move beyond your own infatuation with spar to see that the only divide is one that spar has caused. I know that I don't need to sit at some meeting and listen to how wonderful spar is. There have been face to face meetings before, and the issues and concerns remain unresolved.

I totally agree with you on one thing "This is counterproductive at best and, in my view, is an unnecessary counter-weight to all the good things here."

[fsu813]

"especially if it's hosted by you..."

- exactly the attitude that needs to be addressed. good grief.

"the only divide is one that spar has caused"

- i can think of others, can't you?

"and listen to how wonderful"

- that's not what i described at all

"the issues and concerns remain unresolved"

- exactly. but giving up on it, i hope, wouldn't be an option.


*there has been enough interest to take this a little further. i'll look into some things far enough ahead of time to accomodate everyone. thanks *

[strider]

The past history of "community meetings" here (in Springfield) of late, meaning, the last few years, has not been a great one.  The meetings, while they can be advertised as "not a  SPAR Council meeting", are indeed orchestrated and set-up by SPAR Council and to their agenda.  What I believe Springfielder means by some of her statements, and I am stating only my opinion here,  is that another community meeting set up by a person who has been known to defend SPAR Council no matter what and has basically said it's OK if they (Louise and Company) do not to follow their own by-laws does not bode well for producing a true, all inclusive, non-biased community meeting.

While I understand how many newer residents can come to believe that Louise and Company does so much good for Springfield, many of us who have been around have seen the other side of things.  The by-laws issues are simply one indication of what has been going on.  There are a few of us who are very vocal on the forums but the majority are most likely just “over it” and like Springfielder, pretty much does their own thing and ignores the rest as much as possible.

But rather than just ignore this idea, try this:  Go to Louise and Company and see if you can get a list of things that would allow the likes of me, for instance, back into the fold.  What it would take to get all of the businesses around to be accepted by them and what compromises they would be willing to make.  I will be happy to do the same.  Want to bet the lists are so far apart they make the Grand Canyon seem tiny?  And that is knowing that the odds of getting a real list from Louise and Company that illustrates what they really want is very slim.

The real issue is the chasm is too big until major changes are made in how Louise and Company does their business.  A community meeting without those changes being made first will do nothing but illustrate how wide the chasm is and make it even wider.

[Springfield Girl]

The real issue is the chasm is too big  

Strider, I actually agree with this. The thing is you will never get everyone in any neighborhood to agree on everything. You guys have taken it upon yourselves to start a media campaign against SPAR saying they do not support businesses ie, Pawn shops and thrift stores. You guys are very vocal in saying that the org. does not support halfway houses. I talk to so many people on a daily basis and since the news stories the residents I have talked to all said well yeah, we don't shop at pawn shops or thrift stores. I have been on the SPAR board for 2 years and never has anything been said about trying to shut down the pawn shops or thrift store, that's not what we do. People forget though that SPAR is not some unknown they. We are residents of Springfield. None of us get to decide what the neighborhood wants or does not want. That includes me and you. Now as individuals we all have ideas about how we would like to see the neighborhood grow. Some in the neighborhood may want businesses like thrift stores and pawn shops and some many prefer businesses like Uptown Market and Three Layers. The only thing that decides what existing businesses will stand and which will fall is the market. No one can keep others from supporting or not supporting any business. I choose the businesses where I want to shop no matter what part of town I'm in and so do others. It's not conspiracy, just individual choice.

[sheclown]

SPAR is the only group that has problems with the rest of the neighborhood.

I think once the City realizes how few people the little group has for membership, their power to work ill will be over.

Of course the good projects that they do will have to be taken over by someone else, either that or SPAR will simply have to learn how to do those projects well and let go of the attempt to control the historic district.

Stephen...prophesying earlier today.

[Springfielder]

"especially if it's hosted by you..."

- exactly the attitude that needs to be addressed. good grief.

"the only divide is one that spar has caused"

- i can think of others, can't you?

"and listen to how wonderful"

- that's not what i described at all

"the issues and concerns remain unresolved"

- exactly. but giving up on it, i hope, wouldn't be an option.


*there has been enough interest to take this a little further. i'll look into some things far enough ahead of time to accomodate everyone. thanks *

So you're going to have SPAR attend this meeting and we're all going to walk away happy. Well, thank God, we have you to come save the neighborhood, we've been roaming aimlessly in the dark and so unable to get anything accomplished. I just don't know how we've survived at all. I'm sure this meeting will be the cure all to end all, now that you're here to make everything all rosy and lovely.

Sorry, but the only divide that I know of revolves around SPAR, which is why membership has dwindled down. As long as certain people remain involved with that organization, things will never be fixed. Although I'm sure with your assistance, they'll be more than happy to sit in this meeting and admit what they've done wrong.