Skyway Merits Debated

[tufsu1]

NO TRANSIT SYSTEM IN THE WORLD PAYS FOR ITSELF!!

[JeffreyS]

CS after all this time did you just make the not paying for itself argument? Do I have to point out that Police, fire, roads and so many other services do not pay for themselves or bring any direct revenue again?  But if transit brings in a dime then it better be profitable. The government is not a for profit business!  If you do not think you are getting your bang for the buck with any service fine argue against it.

Please help us fight the battle that if government services aren't the next Multi level Marketing phenomenon we should axe them.

Do not hold transit to a higher standard because it brings in some direct revenue that is not a bad thing.

[CS Foltz]

JeffreyS.......I did not say anything about government being a business for profit! By my standards at best it should be a BREAK EVEN business! Transit should be in the same category I would think! You and I have to operate within our Budgets or we will have trouble and I see no reason why everything else should be exempt! Any business must make a profit to keep their doors open and did not say anything about the $kyway making money............at best it should be a break even prospect and it is not doing so! So I would ask you the same thing that I asked tufsu1..........at what point do you cut your losses?

[Dog Walker]

CS, nothing in government breaks even or makes a profit.  Roads, bridges, sewer systems, flood control projects, public health systems, trash collection are all "common good" things that we would be badly off without so we pay for them with our taxes.  Public transit falls into this same category, in my opinion.

Now, they should all be run as efficiently as possible and we can have arguments about what should be paid for under the "common good".  I personally am outraged that we have built a stadium for the Jaguars, a baseball field for whoever, and a concert hall for rock music groups.

[cline]

I personally am outraged that we have built a stadium for the Jaguars, a baseball field for whoever, and a concert hall for rock music groups.

I would argue that those amenities enhance quality of life for the citizens of Jacksonville.  You speak of "sewer systems" and "flood control projects" as "common good things" in which we would be "badly off without".  Should we de-fund all of of our area's parks and recreation areas?  After all, they are not a necessary public service and they don't break even.  My answer would be no.  All of these things add to the quality of life of our city.

[tufsu1]

I did not say anything about government being a business for profit! By my standards at best it should be a BREAK EVEN business! Transit should be in the same category I would think!

well at least now we know where you really stand!

That said, businesses don't HAVE to make a profit...they just need to break even....but often times certain sectors of a business make more money than others...and if/when costs get too high, businesses usually cut back or raise prices.

[heights unknown]

So what is the solution to help the skyway make money instead of lose money?  The way it presently is configured, it is going nowhere, and not contributing to anything let alone the success of downtown and the City.  

I think the problem is we need to give the skyway a definitive direction and purpose, through planning initiatives so it will have a reason to exist and be a substantial benefit and success for the City.  At present it doesn't even come close.

How about extending it to the Airport, the Sports Complex, West Side, Riverside/5 Points, Southside, NAS/Orange Park, and even maybe go as far as to extend it into St. Johns in the future (I know, Public Transit already covers these areas, but the Skyway could complement the present Bus Transit System in some way to these destinations).  Something has to be done, otherwise, tear it down and forget about it.

"HU"

[Dog Walker]

Exactly!  This we can argue about!  Where should we "invest" our tax money to enhance the overall good?  If these things could be made profitable then a private company would be doing them.

Food is pretty important, but Publix, Winn-Dixie, Whole Foods, etc. are all knocking themselves out to provide it without tax money.  Television is pretty important to most people too, but it is not necessary for the City to provide it.

Parks can't pay for themselves so the City does.  Now about the Jags:  The Dolphins built their own stadium when Miami-Dade refused to do so.  If the Jags are so important to the City that we built the stadium for them, why do I have to pay $200 to go to a game?  Bad investment I think.

[cline]

So what is the solution to help the skyway make money instead of lose money?

In my opinion, it needs to be extended to the stadium as well as into Brooklyn.  Additionally, it should be better integrated into the overall transportation system.  This includes allowing transfers with buses, potential commuter rail and potential streetcar.  Right now it is basically a stand-alone system.  I don't know if the Skyway can ever break even (as some on this board would require to justify its existence) but it could serve a purpose and be an asset to our city.  I don't believe tearing it down is a rational solution.  

As for extending it to the airport, southside or orange park- I don't think that would be feasible.  Those areas would be better off being served by other modes.  

[Johnny]

I agree with HU completely, if they do not develop it, scrap it. The sports complex alone would be a huge step, add in the historic districts and we have something. The airport & NAS would be huge achievements, but more than I would expect anytime soon. I would prefer the money thrown at it in the past not be wasted, but I can't support continuing to waste money on it if something is not going to be done.

[Doctor_K]

...which brings us full circle back to "expand it to take it somewhere and watch the ridership explode" stance.

East:
Stadium. 

South:
Additional stop (or replacement stop) to better serve the three (and future) residential towers on the Southbank.
That new hotel on the Southbank (name escapes me at the moment).
San Marco Square region.
Jackson Square development.

North:
River City Marketplace.

Even then, stjr will hate it and think it's a waste.

[tufsu1]

It was never meant to go 15 miles (the airport or O.P.)....extending it into surrounding areas would be nice but I'm not sure that Riverside or Springfield would see it as compatible w/ their historical neighborhoods.

[JeffreyS]

We are building an inter-modal transportation center at one end of it, Laura Street improvements alongside it and a courthouse that will have a great impact on downtown as a whole. I would think even the most ardent critics of the skyway would want to see the effect those projects will have on it before scrapping the skyway.

We have had sevral big developments targeted as adjacent to the skyway that are now delayed due to market conditions.(St. John, Brooklyn Park and Bay street station) I would like to see if some may come back on line. A few projects built that suffered high "flipping" issues that should fill with residents over time.(The Strand, The Peninsular and Riverstreet).

[Ocklawaha]

Mass Transit should be multimodal inclusive not exclusive.

So rather then improve our lot, we quit to end a $14,000,000 perceived deficit? Then we build a streetcar system and it runs a $15,000,000 "deficit", what have we gained?

The way to fix this is to make the Skyway a smaller part of a integrated mass transit system that includes Bus, BRT, Commuter Rail, Amtrak, Greyhound, LaCubana, Southeastern Stages, Skyway, and streetcar's as the foundation. When it's 4Th and long in the last 30 seconds of the game, you don't walk off the field, this is simply "failure thinking."

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

When it's 4Th and long in the last 30 seconds of the game, you don't walk off the field, this is simply "failure thinking." [/color][/b]

OCKLAWAHA

but Ock...that's exactly what people on this board say Jax. always does ...why should this be any different