New Convenience Store

[Sigma]

This brings up a good point...

How much information should a business need to provide to satisfy the "neighborhood" and convince them to support him? 

Has it been a lack of info that has caused concern about the car wash?

Is there anything that Silas could say/swear/promise which would get SPAR's backing?

From what I gather sheclown, some in the neighborhood feel that his past efforts were not following the correct "path" and that he did not gain community input.  Which I can understand those feelings.  After the meeting last night, I gained more of a historical perspective of 'how Silas got here'.  He seems to get it now and I think he knows that if this is one big charade, then community support will drop like a lead balloon.

Next, I have some of the same questions as Zoo, and it is not unreasonable to ask.  And yes - I am qualified, and yes, I'm an adjacent property owner.

Lastly, Stephen, please give it a rest.

[Dan B]

Thanks Dan, I don't need instruction on the matter from you.  The information asked for is personal. Which is the point.   

It wouldnt matter if Zoo asked these questions or you.  Its no ones business.

But thanks for trying to ratchet the discussion up anyways.

As you  know, I support Silas, but the fact of the matter is he is asking for an exception to the zoning on the land. He needs neighborhood support to get that zoning. Thus the requirements for him to publicly post signs, and the need for him to go through committees like HPC and Planning, both of which have public hearings. If it was nobodys business, it would go straight to the Planning Dept for the exception, and they would approve, or disapprove based on what they thought without input from the public.

The process is set up for public checks and balances. Like it or hate it, thats the way it is. The questions Zoo is asking are good ones, that can and probably should be answered. My beef isn't in asking the questions, but making sure its done before the community organization goes up against it.

Rather than address the questions, your flat out saying the volume of traffic expected on a residential side street, or the level of noise created at that location is nobody's business, and in that your just wrong.

Stop this stupid game of telling people what happens in their community is none of their business, and even if it were their business, that they dont have the credibility to have an opinion is asinine and counter productive.

[thelakelander]

Just in general to everyone involved in this discussion.  None of this stuff should be personal.  Its strictly a zoning issue and a matter of how people believe the revitalization process should take place.  

As for my fire with fire comment.  This is a situation where an organization that has the ear of the city is using that it's view on this issue represents that of the community (which is obviously not true).  That leverage represents "fire" on one end.  For those in the community that don't agree with that particular decision, its up to them to present an alternative case to why that position should be discredited and approval granted.  This is the fire on the other end.  

As for SPAR, it is what it is.  They have a right to voice their opinion on the matter and that has been done.  Nothing that Silas can do, short of becoming Bill Cesery (just joking so put the venom down to the sensitive types), is going to change that.  For those who don't agree, you opinion should be voiced as well and you should do all that you can to back what you believe in.  I think that's where the situation is at this point.

[jason_contentdg]

Dialogue needs to work in both directions, you can't call for it to be one sided, because well, that's simply not dialogue.  Asking for the community to shut up and like it or leave it, when it comes to opening a business, especially one that requires an exception, doesn't do anything positive for the owner applying for the exception.  The process actually calls for this discussion, which is why its advertised.  There needs to be discussions about the business and the process, and in the end nothing negative can come of these questions. 

If a owner seems bothered by those wanting to know more about a potential business opening up in the neighborhood, I think that's starting things out on the wrong foot.  Silas, by the way, is completely open to anyone that comes to him with questions and concerns.  He is being more proactive now in going to various groups to bring the conversation to them, as evidenced by the SAMBA meeting last night, which is obviously a good thing and can only help his cause.

All that being said, there are going to be revisions to the site plan, and a lot of images and documents will be made available, when ready.  I really think the reset button needs to be pressed on this issue, and any new information will be released in a new thread, or an article.  We've had 34 pages of many of the same things being said over and over again, and I look forward to Silas having a fresh start...

[thelakelander]

This brings up a good point...

How much information should a business need to provide to satisfy the "neighborhood" and convince them to support him? 

Has it been a lack of info that has caused concern about the car wash?

Is there anything that Silas could say/swear/promise which would get SPAR's backing?

Here is my take after last night.  SPAR's position is set in stone.  We can talk about the need for dialogue but the line has been drawn in the sand.  Short of making it Disneyland, they aren't going to support the car wash.  So be it.  However, a significant portion of the community supports the idea of having a viable business at that location than keeping it the desolate vacant blighted spot it is right now.  Especially with the owner seeming open to working with the community.  Mr. Jones needs to document this community support to discredit the opposition's position that their outlook represents the community.  Along with developing a sleek presentation and sticking with zoning/business facts (to limit bad information revolving around the concept), its really as simple as that and letting the chips fall where they may.

[jason_contentdg]

I do agree, that a business plan does not need to be presented to anyone, well anyone other than the bank if financing is needed.  Site, design, and connectivity (physical and otherwise) issues however, do.

[thelakelander]

All that being said, there are going to be revisions to the site plan, and a lot of images and documents will be made available, when ready.  I really think the reset button needs to be pressed on this issue, and any new information will be released in a new thread, or an article.  We've had 34 pages of many of the same things being said over and over again, and I look forward to Silas having a fresh start...

Just let me know when you guys are ready with the revised plan.  We'll run it as a front page article.

[Springfield Girl]

Lake, the problem I have is your trying to blame SPAR for the zoning denial. Planning and HPC staff had already looked at this and made their recomendations. They just brought it up at HPC to see what the commision and Louise thought of the decision. City planners and planners on the historic staff did not think this use was a good one for the historic district and the commission unanimously agreed. The fact is, professionals at zoning made this decision based on laws and comprehensive plans that have been done way before residents, neighbors or SPAR knew what was going on. So I guess they are all wrong?  
Sheclown, what is a significant portion of the community? Are they residents? I ask because the majority of the support on this board comes from non residents of Springfield.

[Dan B]

I ask because the majority of the support on this board comes from non residents of Springfield.

Uhm, I disagree. Most of the people on here who have spoken in favor of it are residents, including the person designing it for Silas.

The petition in favor is almost ALL Springfield names, in fact.

[jason_contentdg]

SG, again they, and this is not their fault, looked at an incomplete application and passed judgment on what they were presented.  Because of this, Silas has realized he needs to step up to the plate and make improvements to the site and to the building, and present them to the community and to the required agencies.

Will things be different with a full, well thought out application, who knows, but Silas at least deserves that chance.

[thelakelander]

Lake, the problem I have is your trying to blame SPAR for the zoning denial. Planning and HPC staff had already looked at this and made their recomendations. They just brought it up at HPC to see what the commision and Louise thought of the decision. City planners and planners on the historic staff did not think this use was a good one for the historic district and the commission unanimously agreed.

Come on, we both know how these decisions are made.  "Community representation" denial certainly doesn't help.  

Btw, I'm not blaming SPAR for anything.  Like anyone else, the organization has a right to decide things the way they do.  I'm just saying its literally a waste of time to spend so much energy focusing on them.  Instead, the owner should spend more time to rally around, document and focus on the positive community support.

The fact is, professionals at zoning made this decision based on laws and comprehensive plans that have been done way before residents, neighbors or SPAR knew what was going on. So I guess they are all wrong?

The fact is, is that there is more to this story, from a zoning and comp plan perspective and there is a ton of bad information out there.  We've dive into more, once the revised plans are submitted.

Sheclown, what is a significant portion of the community? Are they residents? I ask because the majority of the support on this board comes from non residents of Springfield.

You should have stopped by the SAMBA meeting last night, where it was the exact opposite of what you describe.  Also, community is more than just residents.  Its the businesses and their customers too.

[Dan B]

SG, again they, and this is not their fault, looked at an incomplete application and passed judgment on what they were presented.  Because of this, Silas has realized he needs to step up to the plate and make improvements to the site and to the building, and present them to the community and to the required agencies.

Will things be different with a full, well thought out application, who knows, but Silas at least deserves that chance.

And thank you, and content design for stepping up to try to make a plan that suits the needs of the owner, and enhances the community.

[jason_contentdg]

Thanks Dan, my official stance is that if a property use could exist in our neighborhood, even if it had to be approved with an exception, then we, meaning the community and our organizations, need to try and work with the potential property developer to make sure they know the hoops, codes, and issues that are in front of them.

If there is a chance that an exception could be approved, then there needs to be some back and forth conversation between the developer and SPAR, it certainly would allow for the chance of certain measures to be taken in the design/development of the property, that would benefit the neighborhood and SPAR, even if SPAR has to recommend deny.

That way there would be beneficial site/design conditions that would still have to be met, as long as the city officials follow up. (Planning and Historic Preservation). 

The other thing that can be done is to just simply deny because the developer would have to file for an exception, and just hope that planning and historic preservation sees it that way as well, without any input at all.  Not saying that happened here, because we simply do not know.

[Springfield Girl]

Really? I inquired and found out there were 12-15 people at the SAMBA meeting and several do not live in the neighborhood. You guys tried to play this off as proof that the opposition was just a small vocal minority. I don't see 12-15 people being a majority of anything. The carwash was not on the agenda and the people who brought it up gave their view of the proposal.

[fsu813]

"Quote
Sheclown, what is a significant portion of the community? Are they residents? I ask because the majority of the support on this board comes from non residents of Springfield."

"You should have stopped by the SAMBA meeting last night, where it was the exact opposite of what you describe."

"Really? I inquired and found out there were 12-15 people at the SAMBA meeting and several do not live in the neighborhood. You guys tried to play this off as proof that the opposition was just a small vocal minority. I don't see 12-15 people being a majority of anything. The carwash was not on the agenda and the people who brought it up gave their view of the proposal."