New Convenience Store

[Dan B]

Are we gonna make sure that those with dirty cars will be there.  A meeting without them would be invalid.

[fsu813]

if people do not want this, simply show up at the meeting....Nov 12th is it?......and we'll see what happens....

and for those who can't make it, make sure to call or fax in a letter about this issue.

[Lucasjj]

Going off of the last image Lake posted, it seems to be a pretty serious car wash operation. It looks to be a third larger than the convenience store, and it is not a self service one. I would think a carwash that large and automated would be quite expensive. If the convenience store aspect is what the person was really trying to accomplish, I don't think it would be this sort of a carwash setup.

[thelakelander]

For those who don't want it, why?  A commercial corridor with occupied buildings is better than one without.  Is there a middle ground?  Can the things that make you feel uncomfortable with such a project be alleviated through better design?

[nvrenuf]

Some of the concerns I heard last night when he discussed it were: increased vehicular traffic on an already degraded brick road, noise, the convenience store being the primary usage.

[danno]

I might have a beef if my residence was next to it, but mine is not.  I would think that the street would need to be taken care of.

[thelakelander]

Some of the concerns I heard last night when he discussed it were: increased vehicular traffic on an already degraded brick road, noise, the convenience store being the primary usage.

From what I can tell, the car wash is the primary use but it can't be allowed with the convenience store.  For those who have been in the hood for a while, how much traffic did it generate between 1955 and 1992?  Also, wouldn't most of the traffic come from Main Street?  It would seem like maintaining the road would be a city responsibility.  Not sure, a true argument can be made for denying someone the right to open a business because the streets have pot holes.  If that were the case, Springfield would be off limits to everyone.  Is there a market for an "attractive" convenience store?  Or are they all poison?

[triclops i]

I dont drive, but I do live and work in the neighborhood, and I think anything is better then an abandoned building.

[fsu813]

quality of managment is key, design as well.

the owner did say he had a couple of others. checking those out will probably tell you all you need to know about what to expect.

[thelakelander]

I might have a beef if my residence was next to it, but mine is not.  I would think that the street would need to be taken care of.

Should the street be the responsibility of the car wash owner, the residents already living along it and using it or the city?  Also, the property is zoned commercial and has been for over 50 years.  It is on the east side of the alley.  As a home owner, if you move next door to a commercial property, at some point shouldn't you expect commercial development on it?  Is this similar to moving next to a railroad or airport or Blanding Blvd and then complaining about train horns, jet noise and traffic?

Also, are there proper ways to buffer commercial from residential?  Could those methods be applied to this project?

Anyway, I'm not for or against, but I'm trying to make people think about how design can address situations and proposals like this in an urban setting.

[cline]

Also, the property is zoned commercial and has been for over 50 years. 

That fact definitely hurts the argument against the car wash/convenience store.  It would be far different if the owner was trying to get the zoning for the parcel changed from residential to commercial.  As for the increase in traffic creating potholes, I think that would be a City maintenance issue and not the owner's responsiblity.  However, if the car wash with the convenience store caused a decrease in LOS on Main Street, that would be an issue the owner of the car wash would need to address.  That being said, if I lived next door, you better believe I would be at the meeting on the 12th to make sure I voiced my concerns.

[thelakelander]

Ouestion (iv) answers the traffic concern:



If people are worried about traffic, they should be more concerned with the amount of traffic 3rd & Main or Hola generates.

[danno]

True.  That's not a lot.

[thelakelander]

My main concern was having another business that creates more curb drinking, litter (Springfield tumbleweeds), and loitering.

What would be ways to address this issue?  Doug Ganson has a convenience store at Landing and it appears that drinking and littering are not associated with it.  Gate and several gas stations all over town have convenience stores and these things are not issues.  Is it possible for Mr. Jones to maintain his facility in a similar manner to the mentioned examples?

I am not so much opposed, not because I anticipate that I will use the facility, but because its negative impacts on the neighborhood will be lower.

I guess my question is, does this have to be a negative?  Right now all that exists is an abandoned and poorly maintained property, which is a negative.  Why can't the new use be set up to be a positive?

Some considerations would be lighting, hours of operation, and buffer between it and the residential behind it, also should look historic.  I would think the onus is on the business owner to address these issues, being that he is the one applying for the exception.

Yes, these are issues the owner should address, unlike maintaining 4th Street.  However, if the community has a vision of what it wants to be, that vision should be shared now and incorporated into the plans before things get too far along.  The onus on this part of it is just as much the responsibility of the community and city, as it is the owner's.

[thelakelander]

I don't see the convenience store on the plans that were submitted, just the car wash.  Did I miss it?

The store is the bottom SE corner of the facility.