The Ruins of Jacksonville: Hogans Creek

[Keith-N-Jax]

Bottom line no park, creek or what ever should with stand the neglect this park, creek has.

[jeh1980]

I read that the efforts on cleaning up Jacksonville's creeks are moving forward. So we all know what that can mean for Hogan's Creek!

[Overstreet]

 Hogan's creek bottled up in that confined canal is a flood hazard waiting to happen.  Which it used to do in the summer at the Health Department in the summer quite often flooding the parking lot covering some cars. 

The deteriorated hand rail and steep sides makes it a safety hazard. I'm sure that JEA fenced off their portion over safety concerns.

One of the differences between Hogan’s creek and Indianapolis Canal is that in Indy the canal is the main water source for the city water treatment plant. They’ve always kept it clean and maintained. It was relatively recent (last 20 years) that they turned it into a parkway.

[JaxBorn1962]

Sad and it will be a long time before anything is done here its just sad.

[Dog Walker]

We have long looked on our natural creeks as just drainage ditches.  Did you know that the Times-Union Building is built OVER McCoy's Creek where it enters the river.  How is that for smart.

[chris farley]

I did some research recently on the creek for input at the Visioning meeting.  The creek was dredged and bulk headed c 1906, 23 years prior to Klutho.  They only drove piles for the bulkheading which was a mistake, the ground under the park is fluid.  They filled what is now Confederate Park  and the Dog park and Orange Street with City Garbage and Sand but, afterwards naptha launches were able to go from the river to 8th Street and there was a widening of the creek in the Confederate Park area as a jetty.

[sheclown]

We haven't been very good stewards of our water here -- the river, the creeks.  

[Captain Zissou]

We haven't been very good stewards of our water here -- the river, the creeks.  

Too true. And what was said about McCoy's Creek, you'd never know it was there unless you saw it from the riverwalk.

[fsu813]

Chris Farley knows a lot of Jax history.

[chris farley]

quote, Hogan's creek bottled up in that confined canal is a flood hazard waiting to happen.  Which it used to do in the summer at the Health Department in the summer quite often flooding the parking lot covering some cars. 

That is not what is causing the flooding - we have to keep the river out.  There is a 12 - 14 inch tide and in storms at high tide it is 4.5 ft.  When they filled Confederate park as I said above it was to bring it up to high water level,  Imeson the engineer that worked with Klutho in 1929 recognized this - that is why lock gates were put at the river and two huge pumps were used to take the water flowing into the creek during high tide and storms  and pump it into the river.  The lock gates worked like a heart valve, when the river was low the water in the creek flowed out, when the tide came in it closed the gates.  They are probably on the bottom of the river now, they were oak and bronze.  What also is really the problem, c 1900 the park was about 42 acres, it has a water shed of 25,000 acres.  NOW the park is only 27 acres but the watershed is still the same but much of it has been paved over and built up so the run off is far worse.  You mention the health dept and its parking lot, that should never have been built, it is on park land.  Nowadays Springfield would have protested such an action.
The problem is the fluid matter under the park also.  When the city was filling it the weight of the fill caused the underneath to ooze up.  That is why Klutho/Imeson gave the creek a wooden bottom with two feet of sand, this to allow the water to come up through the bottom but prevent the muck and mud.  There is going to be a bunch of stuff put on the SHEC Springfield Heritage Education website - the old museum about this.  I have been collecting history on the park and creek. if you find  bottles in the park after a flood check then out they could be from the 100 year old garbage. I was given one this week, it was a sample of Foley's Kidney Cure and is worth about $20  In the late 1800s the creek was also a sewer. There will be something written for the Spring tour book
.

[zoo]

Chris, let me know if you/SHEC need any imagery of Klutho/Imeson's HCIP plans -- I've got all of the orig plans from the City engineering dept digitized. I'll send some to Lake also, in case he wants to post (I don't use a photo site to do so myself).

[billy]

Great information.
Is there a pdf avaiable of the overall site plan?

[JeffreyS]

You know before MetroJacksonville posted this story I had never thought about Hogans creek. I now wish very much we would remake it into the Jewel it can be.

[Lucasjj]

While they are cleaning up the creek, they should do something about the ducks around there. The sidewalks through Confederate Park are disgusting from the amount of bird crap. I know in one apartment complex I lived in that when there became what they considered to many ducks they would have a certain amount removed. This helped keep the sidewalks from being covered in bird crap.

[chris farley]

Zoo thankyou, I am going to a shec meeting next week, the web is being revamped, there are great plans for it. I will put this on the table, if you wish to attend the meeting you are welcome - my email farley1626@msn.com. Mack Bisette did get copies of Klutho/Imeson plans - actual size though, if yours are digitalized that would be wonderful.  Klutho considered his "Venetian Waterway" his greatest achievement.  I am fearful since some of the plans put forward for the creek suggest to remove the Klutho walls and allow the creek to become natural.  Natural would mean a return to a swamp which during the dry season could once again become a garbage covered plain.
The stuff from the early 1900s I got from the FTU, also a drawing of the dredge Priorleau which had two types of equipment, one for dredging and one for pile driving,  they went one way doing one job and then the other doing the other.  Priorleau was a city engineer and I guess the dredge was named for him.  I do not know how to post pictures or I would put it on here.
Some of this stuff is going to be used in the Pilot Club demetery tour, some interesting deaths due to the creek. 
Incidently if the creek is cleaned of the silt it may not be dredged, it has to be vacuumed, a dredge would break the sills and let the walls go.