The Ruins of Jacksonville: Hogans Creek

[BridgeTroll]

Can those very large live oaks be transplanted?

[downtownparks]

Nothing was ever assumed by anyone I worked with. In my plea to the city when I was actively working the issue, my focus was on #1 environmental remediation (by any means), #2 architectural preservation and restoration, and #2a usability. Chris Farley has also spent a lot of time and effort on the issue of architectural preservation, digging up some great engineering information on the creeks channelizing in 1929. Rita Regan, Doug Vanderlaan, and several others not even in the community have also spent considerable time on the issue over the last decade or so.

Lots of ideas have been put forward, but with lack of funding, very little is possible. Meetings have been held with multiple agencies, local, state, and federal, about the problems that exist, including Congresswoman Brown herself, and the ways to handle them. Everyone knows there is a problem. The problem is 100% a funding problem.

When Doug and I were working together, we attacked the small issues we knew we could get done because we knew that was where we could have the biggest impact short term. removing chain link and razor wire, removing no longer in-use utility poles, removing, or cleaning abandoned JEA buildings, cleaning litter, painting bridges, addressing social degradation where drugs or prostitution had become a problem.

UrbanJacksonville has tried to address some of these issues too by way of advocacy.

SACARC and the womans club have done a great job on bringing in the dog park and the Rose Arbor (among other things), but everyone who has tried to attack the environmental issues, have run into brick walls.

Most recently, Jennifer Holbrook has made great strides in getting Councilman Gaffney on board with coming up with a comprehensive plan (Something Vanderlaan and I could never get Councilwoman Lockett-Felder to buy into) and is bringing some big players to the table. I think she has the right players, now someone has to figure out how to pay for it, be it fund raising or tax money, or some combination there in.

Its a massive problem that will require, at a minimum, government buy in, if not funding.

[coredumped]

Jokingly, in another thread, people were talking about "getting their shovels" and "getting to work." (I think it may have been the skyscraper thread). Is this something that could really be done by volunteers? This certainly seems like an easier task than building a skyscraper.
Are there any experts here that can estimate time & resources required to repair by section?

[strider]

OK, it has been a while since I talked to the people involved about this but:

Wasn't there a huge ceromony and a rather large check issued by the city many years ago to address the park issues?  The womans club was behind it and Lisa Neary was in the fore front then...the city was surprised that an actually check was issued and Lisa snatched it up.  Something happened with the contamination and the whole thing was put on hold.  The money sat making interest for years.  I think that Chris Farley mentioned that some or all of this money was finally used for something in the parks not too long ago. Chris, can you comment on this?

This just goes to show that this park has been considered important before and it seems the contamination has been the hold up.  Has that changed?  Isn't there still a plan in place to allow the parks to get cleaned up?  And isn't the contamination part of the reason the skating park is being seriously considered? If it is still being considered.

[civil42806]

Jokingly, in another thread, people were talking about "getting their shovels" and "getting to work." (I think it may have been the skyscraper thread). Is this something that could really be done by volunteers? This certainly seems like an easier task than building a skyscraper.
Are there any experts here that can estimate time & resources required to repair by section?

There is a system for volunteers to help maintain parks, but I don't think it would include anything of this scope

[downtownparks]

Yes, you can get a friends of the park permit, and this will give you some limited ability to do things. The community has done a lot already. Painted bridges, planted planters, dug out sidewalks, cleaned hundreds of bags of litter and garbage out from underneath the bridges. Citibank has come in to help, celebration church has come in to help.

All these efforts are great, but its just a bandage on a bazooka wound at this point. some serious attention needs to be paid to the creek, and surrounding park system.

[Ocklawaha]

Jokingly, in another thread, people were talking about "getting their shovels" and "getting to work." (I think it may have been the skyscraper thread). Is this something that could really be done by volunteers? This certainly seems like an easier task than building a skyscraper.
Are there any experts here that can estimate time & resources required to repair by section?

I don't think it was jokingly! These are dedicated streetcar or railroad buff's talking, and YES they would rebuild the Santa Fe, tie by tie if they were asked to. 1504? Jacksonville Traction? Piece of cake...

To save the ornate concrete works of the old Klutho parks, we'd have to embed porcupine quills in the toppers to keep the human excrement off of them. Maybe a couple of us ancient Vietnam Vets could come down and lay out some VC style booby traps... I always thought this was just a exaggerated tale to shock the city into action, then I tried to walk there! You could move faster with ski's on. YUCK.

OCKLAWAHA

[barberofdeville]

Ok folks Jaxentucky im hoping doesnt refer to Kentucky. Louisville has a great urban core and some of the best parks in the country as well as several areas that could be used as examples for JAX to use. The highlands area, Crescent Hill area, St. Mathews, and the downtown has been revitalized and is making great movement in these areas. Anyway i moved here from Louisville recently and look at JAX as a great opportunity for growth and community projects. One of the reasons Louisville has faired so well is community involvement from sorrounding areas of metro louisville. Volunteer work, donations, and from consumers supporting local places. When you patronize a chain that money goes to thier headqaurters and not back into the community. I shop where i can afford most of the time, but i still try and buy local when i can. The comments on San Antonio are spot on i was there over 2 years ago and that River Walk made me want to move there. San Antonio's river walk didnt always look like that, niether did Louisville. It took over 20 years of dedication by a whole lot of people and alot of volunteer work.

"Getting your shovel's" and "getting to work" may just be what it takes. As far as being done by volunteers the answer is yes! You may not be able to do the concrete and stone work(unless there are some concrete workers or stone Masons here). What you can do is volunteer some ours and get togethor with others and do some Landscape planning and implementation to make it look better. Little bits here and there make good places to start. Money is tight in government right now im sure with all the forclosures and the economic crisis going on. However if it gets looking better down there people will start going there more often and the city will have to take notice (if not in the beginning eventually they will have to) Im sure if a group of volunteers for this project were put togethor  they would be willing to atleast put out some money for material cost. If not im sure we all have some plants in our yards that can be seperated and planted. The only way its going to happen is if we the people of JAX rally togethor and get it done. If we get JAX looking good then Tourism will happen. If tourism happens the economy goes up. There is lot of people out of work sittin on there arses at the moment and im sure some of them are bored outta there minds. Just some food for thought.

[BOfficer]

Wow, so much wasted potential.  Another great post that shows how Jacksonville has great "bones" but needs some rehab to take it to the next level. 

[Ocklawaha]

I've always been delighted by those parks, now having walked the whole thing, im convinced it might be a good place for the military to store unused napalm and cordite.  I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

How many Parks directors have we had in the last 20 or so years?  And, isn't Parks now part of Public Works?  The fact is is that Parks are a political football in Jax with all the City Council reps having a say in how the money is spent in their districts and no central, overall prioritization for the entire City without all the Council reps buying in.  If this is the case, they don't give without getting and the whole process gets distorted and abused.

We need a centralized governing body vested and focused on parks for all before we can get the best for Jax citizens.  This body also needs to enlist citizen involvement by working with neighborhood associations, companies, and citizens to encourage "adopt a parks" etc. to support them.  And then, we need to create a Parks police division or deputize parks' employees to forcefully patrol and enforce litter and basic park decorum on those citizens who abuse our parks.  It's not going to happen with a very busy and over qualified JSO department.

[mtraininjax]

Paul Crawford, who used to work in the Mayor's office is the director, as far as I know, of the park system. Brad Thoburn used to be the planning director and he worked in the Mayor's office. Kerry Stewart used to work in the Mayor's office and is now head of the Jax Housing Authority, among other things....

Anyone see a pattern here....work in the mayor's office and you can then work anywhere the mayor has a need for your loyalty.

[I-10east]

I know never say never, but I do not see the "gondolas cruising down the canal" restaurant lined waterway, San Antonio riverwalk vision concerning the Hogan Creek area. That area is very flood prone, and Hogan Creek isn't navigable, because of low bridges, pipes, and a number of things. How bout something more small scale, like masonry work on the banisters, a lil' dredging in some areas of the creek, some sidewalk work, and some foliage. IMO it's unfair to compare areas like S.A's riverwalk to Hogan Creek. Sometimes you gotta play with the cards that you're dealt with; HC wasn't meant to be a high capacity "restaurants lining the waterway" type of area that everyone dreams about.

[thelakelander]

Do put too much into the article.  There is no hidden agenda saying Metro Jacksonville wants gondolas in Hogans Creek.  However, the waterway can be what you make of it.  The setting and existing environment could offer a mix of amenties to the local community.  For example, south of the Arlington Expressway you could canoe or paddle boat, etc because all of the bridges have decent clearance.









http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-paddling-up-hogans-creek

Anyway, the point of the story is not to outright copy the San Antonio model or anyone else's.  The article strictly highlights a forgotten urban core treasure that should become a higher priority for the city.  Whether we attempt to stick gondolas in there, line it with restaurants, improve the water quality or just preserve the historic architecture will ultimately be left up to the city and community.  The examples are just there to show what other cities have done with forgotten canals, waterways and streams in their urban core.

[Ocklawaha]

My paddling experience suggests the real snafu is where the creek goes under the Arlington Expressway in a couple of tiny box culverts. This also explains the flooding issues on the other side. FDOT/JTA has some plans to redo that road sometime in the future, if we could get a much higher clearence and more overall volume there, the (completely cleaned up) creek would be great to paddle. North of Arlington Expressway as far as Main or Boulevard, they once had paddle boats. Today that could be done again by lifting the Klutho bridges and making the channel user friendly.



Such are the things dreams are made of...

OCKLAWAHA