High Speed Rail: A No-Brainer

[FayeforCure]

This means that tying together muliple populations of 100,000 along the Tampa- Orlando route as lakelander wants is just not suitable for HSR. But then again lakelander doesn't want to start with HSR.

I'm not against HSR.  As you stated, I don't believe the Tampa-Orlando corridor is the best fit for it.  This corridor really needs commuter rail to better accomodate both local and tourist movement.

While the ORL-MIA route is pobably even better for HSR, FL decided to start relatively small, so as to be up and running sooner. And I agree with that strategy.

The stimulus funding was spposed to be like a Marshall plan for the US. I"m excited in that we don't have to deal wirh recalcitrant Republicans in our state legislature, to come up with any matching state funding for HSR. We can see how they left Tri-Rail high and stranded.

[thelakelander]

I don't even mind using Tampa/Orlando has a starting point.  The population and growth is certainly there.  Its just best to design these systems to best take advantage of the corridor they are going into.  The Midwest HSR plan is a great example of working with what you already have in a manner that gets the best utilization out of the money needed to jump start such a massive project.  The current Florida plan can be summed up as attempting to stick a square peg into a round hole. 

[tufsu1]

Is this 2.7 million passengers a year?  So that shakes out to roughly 7,397 riders a day in 2020?

Yes...although another version assume 4.5 million passengers by 2030 (more aggressive assumptions on Disney visitors).

[mvp]

LaHood in Orlando today on HSR - "you've got to get your act together"
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-trains-florida-100509,0,6002951.story

[tufsu1]

wonder if Sen. Dockery got the message?

[JeffreyS]

The State needs to support Tri rail, Sunrail, Tampa's and Jax's Commuter and Streetcar plans.

[thelakelander]

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood had a simple message today for the Florida Senate: Get behind the planned SunRail commuter train in Central Florida, or forget about the state winning $2.5 billion in federal money for a proposed high speed train linking Orlando with Tampa.

"You've got to get your act together," LaHood told theOrlando Sentinel about the Senate, which twice has failed to approve SunRail.

"If they don't," he said moments later to a Florida official, "there's going to be a lot of disappointed people."

Lol, good stuff.  Now the ball is in Florida's court.  Faye, what do you think Florida should do?  Support Sunrail and HSR or give up on both?

[FayeforCure]

Faye, what do you think Florida should do?  Support Sunrail and HSR or give up on both?

Florida should either rework Sunrail, so it isn't such an expensive corporate give-away, and work out a similar liability agree ment as the CSX deal in Massachusetts ( in the event an accident occurs involving a freight train and CSXT is clearly at fault because of willful misconduct, the rail road will be responsible to pay the deductible on that policy, up to a maximum of $7.5 million per accident.), or

Maybe start off with LRT as Tampa is doing,..........seems to me a far easier one to work out and more state of the art. It's crazy that Orlando and other Florida cities don't have LRT.

Obviously we WILL NOT give up on HSR. As LaHood says "It (high speed rail) is the next step," LaHood said, "the next level of transportation … It means you are forward thinking."

LRT to me is more forward thinking, and we are just as ready to go with that as we are Sunrail, if not better.

[thelakelander]

Not saying that Tampa should not move forward but their LRT plan is a good decade away IF their residents agree to tax themselves extra to pay for it next year.  We're just as likely to have commuter rail running in Jacksonville before the first Tampa resident hops on a LRT train in that city.  On the other hand, Sunrail is a Florida Senate vote away from reality.  My guess is that the state and CSX will come to some sort of agreement on the liability issue.  There's too much money on the table for them to walk away.  

Although I still wonder how these projects complement each other.  Unless a new commuter rail corridor (which has not been shown to date) is constructed to Orlando's airport, it will be impossible to transfer between these systems.

[FayeforCure]

so if the man writing the check says both or nothing, which he did, what do you say to that?

If you read the article, it is not clear that LaHood specificall ymentioned Sunrail,.........none of his quotes use the word Sunrail. LaHood just means we have to provide intracity public transport. The article says:  communities that support all forms of transit, from buses to commuter trains to bicycle paths. And he wants them to connect, allowing people to get out of their cars, reducing congestion and pollution.

That means an Orlando LRT would be just as good if Sunrail is causing too much trouble.

[thelakelander]

Unless the reporter made a false statement, its clear as day that Sunrail and HSR's fates have been tied together.  Now its time to see if Florida can rise above political games.

[tufsu1]

LRT to me is more forward thinking, and we are just as ready to go with that as we are Sunrail, if not better.

not even remotely true...

Orlando was more ready for LRT in 1998 than they are now...before the Orange County Commission voted no and the money went to Charlotte.

And Tampa was more ready in 2002 than they are now...before the Hillsborough County Commission voted no and FTA dropped them off the list.

For either city to implement LRT now would require major updates to the environmental studies and to start the engineering/design work...SunRail already has their environmental studies and preliminary design done.

[JeffreyS]

If their fates are tied to one another you need to make the systems work together. HSR makes much more sense to me in tandem with systems that move you locally.

[Ocklawaha]

Is this 2.7 million passengers a year?  So that shakes out to roughly 7,397 riders a day in 2020?

Wow, sounds like a winner Lake, 105 passengers per mile, per day. The poor Skyway get about 500 passengers per mile, per day. Another BILLION dollar winner for Florida.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Ock...careful what you say....sometimes costs and users (which should not be a major measure) don't line up very well.

The Amtrak on FEC line is expected to cost over $700 million with all upgrades....and is projected to carry 910,000 passengers a year in its tenth year of operations (after all upgrades)....that amounts to less than 2500 passengers per day.

Clearly the Outer beltway and SR 9B will have a better cost/user ratio!